Author Topic: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)  (Read 813 times)

Preston

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My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« on: February 04, 2012, 07:12:19 AM »
Hi At Christmas I was give a book on model railways - I needed a new hobby. I loved what I read so bought my self AnyRail and have started my planning.

I have bought only one piece of Peco N scale flex track, just so I had something real to look at  :) 

I have attached my first AnyRail plan - I know It will not be perfect so any comment no matter how harsh will be appreciated  :) 

I also want to say thank you to the hundreds of posts in this forum that I have spent hours trawling through and found great stuff that has helped me understand what I am trying to do  :) Great site! Great Product and obviously great forum members.

Regards Preston

Preston

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 07:42:37 AM »
Just realized I didn't say that I was only going to start with the middle bench - with the helix. The area i am building is in Gippsland Australia. Quite a mountainous area with lots of interesting geology. Although a rail line exists in the area, mine is quite fictitious. 50 cm foam will be placed on the bench-work. The area I will be modeling will be logging industry. I will also be focusing in the late 60's early 70s. I will also be using a DCC.

Preston

Jeff

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 06:44:54 PM »
Preston,

I can't say that I like it much. Especially the part around the mountain where the track is in a perfect circle. Way too much like the ones around a Christmas tree for my taste. Next, the rest of the track seems kind of disorganized(?). Tracks go here and there but don't seem to have a reason for doing so. Maybe it will clear up when the plan is done...
Also, it looks to me like you have a VERY small lower limit set for your radius of turn. That can be a dangerous thing to do, unless you're running 4-wheel engines and cars. I don't know where you're located, but perhaps you don't have the right measurement system set? It's currently shown in mm. If you actually live in the US, then there's a BIG difference between 10mm and 10" (and even 10" is on the stingy side).

Tip: Check out the use of corner shapers- click the mountain outline  and look up at the Ribbon, then choose Curved corners or Round corners.
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RhB_HJ

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 07:29:04 PM »
Reading his post "my guess" is he's from downunder aka Australia.  ;) ;)

Jeff

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 07:37:27 PM »
Yeah, true. Are they civilized or do they use metric? :) :)

Anyway, 10mm minimum radius is a LITTLE small, even for N scale.


(Besides, it says the area he is BUILDING is Australia. That doesn't say he's IN Australia!)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 07:43:25 PM by Jeff »
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RhB_HJ

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2012, 08:01:25 PM »
Yeah, true. Are they civilized or do they use metric? :) :)

Anyway, 10mm minimum radius is a LITTLE small, even for N scale.


(Besides, it says the area he is BUILDING is Australia. That doesn't say he's IN Australia!)

Yes, they are civilized, so much so they use Metric (aka the normal system; you may interpret normal in whichever way you like  ;)  ;) ). Having at least two books on Aussie railways and buying the odd Aussie mag I would think it prudent to be close to the prototype in order to get the correct gist of things. Oh BTW back in 1991 we toured some of OZ by train, Sygney to Adelaide (through the outback), Adelaide to Alice Springs, would have taken the train to Darwin, too, but there was no passenger service. From Darwin we flew to Cairns and then took the train to Brisbane. Some of the video is on my video site.
Was very interesting and completely different. My saying at the time: "If the Aussies get more layed back they will fall over backwards".

Preston

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 12:29:19 AM »
Ki Jeff and Hans - thanks for taking the time to have a look and make comment.

Jeff - Your comments have made me look at the plan through a different filter -  I think I was more focused on getting the track to connect than the aesthetic, so thanks for helping me look at it a little differently. All of the track under the gray is hidden under the mountain so the helix track is not seen. The Access point in the middle is cut out of the bench so that I can stand in the middle of the helix. The hole will have a 660 diameter. I am loosing weight so should be able to fit :-)

We in Australia - do use Metric we also hunt wild animals and eat with our hands so perhaps we could be considered just a little less 'civilized' than other nationalities, but generally we are a friendly tribe :-)

Jeff - I was very interested in your comment in relation to the radius - I think this is why I put the plan up for discussion. I need to learn the 'technical' elements. I thought that my minimum radius on the plan was 240 mm which in your civilized measurement is around 9". I had read that this was the absolute minimum radius that should be used. Most of the radii are 280 mm(11") or 320mm (12.5"). In the helix I have used 360mm (14") and 400mm (15") - I had read that these were reasonable radii for a helix.

Hans - The trip that you have mentioned is a fantastic train trip. Next year I will be doing the Adelaide to Darwin as well as the Melbourne to Cairns. I have done the train trips around cairns which are breathtaking - Cliffs and waterfalls that are so close to the edge of the train you can feel the spray from the water.

Thank-you to both of you for your comments. Any other technical advise would be greatly and humbly received :)

Regards Preston

RhB_HJ

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 12:33:00 AM »
Hi Preston my 2 cents will be coming up, but presently I'm in West Texas, figuratively speaking that is.

Preston

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2012, 12:50:09 AM »
Hans - :-) figuratively of course :-)

Jeff

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2012, 02:20:01 AM »
You're welcome, of course, Preston. May I suggest you get hold of a copy of John Armstrong's 'Track Planning for Realistic Operation'. I haven't read the new second edition, but I trust in the people doing the job, so buy whichever you can find. Reading that book from cover to cover will teach you more about American railroads than we could without writing a book  just like it for you to read :).

In any case, I will try to reply to each of your questions. First off, the accepted minimum for radius in N is 247.65mm. Even that is pretty much only used these days in industrial trackage. When dealing with American 50-60 foot cars and larger, you really don't want to push the limits. And yours is set to 10mm, which is just plain balmy  (as you might call it :) ). As in any other scale, the bigger the curve, the better.
Now we'll talk about the track design. You understand the concept of 'railroad usual practices'. You've seen plenty of railroads in operation. That means you can look at what you've designed and see if any part of it looks anything like real railroads. If you're just in the hobby to have something to do in your twilight years [ :D ]. then you can build as you like and ignore the snickers of people who come to see what the heck you're doing in the back bedroom. However, it looks like you've become infected with a love of railroading, so you really have to consider your design. Reading that book will do you a world of good. It discusses what real railroads do, WHY they do it, and how they do it. It's a master class in design written by the most successful layout designer in history. Your layout does connect up, but it is rather far from looking like a railroad. That's harsh, but as long as I'm wearing holes in my keyboard, I might as well be perfectly honest. There are certain compromises that we, as modelers have come to accept, but we do our level best not to do so any more than necessary, so I hope you won't get all fluffed up and toss it as a bad idea. The only reason I mention this is that you seem to be willing to do the work involved in looking at how the prototype does things.
It's ok that you want to use a helix, but we seldom see them with only 1 loop. I'm not sure what the purpose is behind the entire layout. For further inspiration, look at my posts under Large layout in this forum. What I wrote about what to do BEFORE opening AR should do you a world of good. The main target is deciding what it is you really want. Once you know that, actually doing it is a lot easier!
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Preston

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2012, 06:09:43 AM »
Hi Jeff - not sure where you are getting the 10mm from. I have the grid set up for 10 mm but have no curves that are 10mm (unless I am using the program incorrectly which is highly possible :-)

The Helix has 4 levels - just have not represented them in the plan - although I did state that in text on the plan.

I have ordered John Armstrong's book :-) I am an avid reader and researcher so cover to cover it will be. 

LOL - I never get fluffed up these days so your honesty is very valuable and taken in the spirit it is given. I appreciate your time, your experience and your willingness to share it :-)

Regards Preston



Jeff

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2012, 03:27:55 PM »
You're welcome. I get the 10mm from what shows up in the minimum radius slot when I load your layout. It sets things to metric (mm scale) and it shows that 10. If it's more than that, then ignore (some of) what I said :). BTW, what's the actual dimensions of the room? I was wondering how the layout fits into that space. I was reading another of your posts, here, where you said something about Kato for the mainline and Atlas for yards and such. I'd do it just the opposite, myself. Yards benefit from neat and tidy geometry, while the mainline has to put up with what it can get, making it a good candidate for flex track. Well, to be honest, I'd do the who thing in flextrack, but that's just me :).
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Preston

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2012, 06:45:29 PM »
Hi Jeff

Thanks for your update - I have changed the 10 mm to 248 mm, when I did this a number of my curves went red so am playing with design to remove these pieces.

The room dimension is 3160 mm X 3940mm. Left wall available space is only 2530 (cupboard on this wall). The Bottom wall only 2190 mm (door on this wall).

Not my post about Atlas and Kato but good advice anyway. I will be doing all in flex, I think I learn more skills that way as well as it is more economical and as the name suggests fixable  :)

Regards

Preston

RhB_HJ

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2012, 06:56:39 PM »
Preston,

Could you draw and post a room outline with the obstructions i.e. cupboard, door, windows?

Jeff

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Re: My first plan - N scale - I have an entire room to play in :-)
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2012, 07:19:06 PM »
Oops, ok, I'll let you off the hook about flex track :). I admit to being rather fanatical about avoiding sectional track. On the other part, it's always best to start from an accurate drawing of the entire room, as both HJ and I are agreed :D
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