Author Topic: Large N-scale layout  (Read 10733 times)

Offline Jeff

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #150 on: May 30, 2012, 06:34:24 pm »
That's funny. I find that I can gain 5 pounds just by watching shows on the Food Network... :)  Still, that doesn't mean I wouldn't LIKE to watch something like "the Skinny Network".
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Offline Mike from CT

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #151 on: May 31, 2012, 01:00:36 am »
Not only that, it's really hard to get a good operating crew of only slim guys.
At least that's my experience, but then I should have stopped baking cakes and other goodies for the session after operating.  :o  ;)  :)

After operating? ? ? ? ?

Maybe that's why the last thing I see of my crews for the night is when they come in the front door and ask "Where's the food?"  Funny, none of them ever asked "Where's the layout?" - or, it seems, found it....

Truth in advertising: I'm a lone wolf operator but now I now why - I get to eat all the goodies.... :)

« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 01:08:20 am by Mike from CT »

Offline Jeff

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #152 on: May 31, 2012, 01:37:05 pm »
Well, just in case Jody checks in here, I will say that I have two versions of the large layout pretty much done. What I'm doing now is playing with benchwork shapes. I'm doing my best to discover what is really the best shape and it's not as open and shut as we all thought.
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Offline RhB_HJ

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #153 on: May 31, 2012, 03:30:22 pm »
I've started calling this "the layout with the moving goal posts" some time ago.  ;D  ;D  ;D  But since that happens quite often on many layouts - rooms change shape, obstructions appear out of no-where, major "druthers" disappear as if by magic etc etc - I just grin and wish whoever good luck during the building phase.  ;)  ;) That's when the rubber hits the road and the wheels start spinning on the spot - even when there is no snow or ice on the road.  :-X
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 03:45:46 pm by RhB_HJ »
Hans-Joerg Mueller
Coldstream, BC   Canada

http://www.rhb-grischun.ca
http://www.easternmountainmodels.com

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Offline Mike from CT

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #154 on: May 31, 2012, 03:34:46 pm »
Well, just in case Jody checks in here, I will say that I have two versions of the large layout pretty much done. What I'm doing now is playing with benchwork shapes. I'm doing my best to discover what is really the best shape and it's not as open and shut as we all thought.

They'll be fun to see.

I'm playing with Bailey (North Platte NE) Yard.  A reasonably representative replica that really could be used - on a vary large (club) layout.  First try was to fit a very large, totally freelanced yard into the "Platt Flats Yard" are on my master, but that one was visually boring - looked like 50'x2' feet of staging yard, crammed with track.  Current one is not restricted by width (well, 4' max with access from both sides.  Eastbound yards and engine facility operated from one side, westbound from other.   Operation from both sides is going to be critical if we don't want folks tripping over one another....
 
Trying to mimic the real thing is producing a much more interesting yard - eastbound yards are in-line, while westbound ones are parallel.  Also representing hump yard trees (even if implemented as flat yards) makes them more scenically "attractive" than the typical standard ladder (even compound ladder) used for flat yards.  And folks have built working hump yards in N scale (for example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8YfSXjH7FA).

Anyway, if I like the results, I may jiggle the yard and my master plan to get them to work together.  Gimme a couple more days and I'll post what I have.

Offline Jeff

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #155 on: May 31, 2012, 08:06:46 pm »
Do you have a link to the Bailey track plan prototype)? It will save me a lot of searching if you do. I have been considering including the full yard (Yes, about 55x6, in Jody's case) running down the center. If he wasn't so set against duckunders, I would have put it in the middle long ago. The way I see it, if you just use the duckunder once per operating session, it really isn't so bad. Once an operator gets assigned to the yard, there's no way he's going to have enough slack time to go wandering through the duckunder every time you turn around. I figure it will take at least 4 people in the center of it at all times in order to keep things moving. Oh, yes, I also figure it will look a lot better as a long donut with operators in the middle than a 4-6 foot wide peninsula.

Model it as a hump yard??? I think they will have their hands full with a flat tree. I don't mind the idea, but I have serious doubts about keeping a couple thousand cars tuned to the point where they will not only roll on command, but roll at approximately the same speed. You can't have them roll too fast or two slow. One fast hit and there will be wheels on the ground.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 08:18:25 pm by Jeff »
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Offline Mike from CT

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #156 on: May 31, 2012, 08:51:38 pm »
UP apparently has one on their site - if you're a UP customer with an account.  Trains also seems to have one (http://trn.trains.com/~/link.aspx?_id=1AAADEA8F5BB42CE93D877516113DFBF for a teaser), if you're a subscriber.  I subscribe to MR, but that isn't good enough.... :(

I've been using google maps for the track plan. (Their image is clearer than Bing's.)  Since I'm going for "flavor" over detail, it's doing the job.  Just go to maps.google.com and ask for "North Platte, NE" and it'll be just to the upper left of the town.  It's kinda hard to miss.... :)

Offline RhB_HJ

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #157 on: May 31, 2012, 09:55:40 pm »
Hmmmmm if I recall correctly that track plan was in TRAINS, I'll have a look. ;)
Hans-Joerg Mueller
Coldstream, BC   Canada

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http://www.easternmountainmodels.com

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Offline Jeff

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #158 on: May 31, 2012, 11:04:22 pm »
I don't subscribe to anything but the theory of general relativity :D However, I'll take a look through Google. Too bad they don't do a 'Street view' for that yard!
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Offline Mike from CT

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #159 on: June 01, 2012, 05:44:18 am »
I don't subscribe to anything but the theory of general relativity :D

Isn't that the theory that says "In general, my relatives are okay but yours are a whole 'nother subject?"  ::)

Seriously, Google is actually pretty good if you're not planning on reproducing a perfect replica.  It raises some questions - like there's a series of refueling racks for unit trains heading east (judging by the positions of the engines on the trains at the rack just north of the two fuel tanks and the fact the tracks merge just east of the racks), but I can't find anything similar for trains heading west. Maybe they just coasted down hill from there to Wyoming?  Or UP decided to cut fuel costs in half by fueling only eastbound trains?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 05:47:52 am by Mike from CT »

Offline Jeff

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #160 on: June 01, 2012, 04:27:19 pm »
"Isn't that the theory that says "In general, my relatives are okay but yours are a whole 'nother subject?"  ::)"

Ummm, no. It's the one that says 'If you let your relatives tell you what they think of grown men playing with toy trains, you're nuts!'.

I'm thinking that the nearest westbound fueling points to the east of the yard are probably closer than the eastbound ones. Not to mention that empty unit-trains have got to use a lot less fuel westbound than the full eastbound ones. Or maybe the westbound grades are such that it's all downhill and they coast home :).
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Offline Mike from CT

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I found them !!!! .....
« Reply #161 on: June 01, 2012, 08:40:32 pm »
Way over on the west end, just below the diamond shaped part of the coal empties yard's left-ladder.  Not where I expected it to be at all.....

Offline Jeff

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #162 on: June 02, 2012, 03:37:15 pm »
It's a very interesting yard. Seemingly bits and pieces all over and sub-yards stuck on wherever they felt like it. And an 8 track main(!!!). HJ complains when I put in a 4 track? Hmm.

Anyway, seeing it makes me feel really good about my efforts on the plans. I have most of the features of the real thing, except those two HUGE fuel tanks. I think I prefer to split up the fuel supply into several tanks- makes them easier to fit into the space and will make replacement easier if one of them should fail. You will note a feature that is seldom if ever modeled: the containment dike. The EPA and OSHA mandate that there be a containment dike around every tank capable of holding in the contents of a full tank plus a heavy rain storm. One thing that strikes me is how small the yard is. Yes, small. There are the remains of a truly BIG yard southeast of Albany, NY. It was about 3 times the size of Bailey. Even the current NYC Selden yard southwest of Albany is a pretty large item. Bailey boasts of 300 tracks, but I submit that it really doesn't look like it. Not to say that it isn't a busy place. It's obvious that it handles a lot of freight.
As I said, In my latest plan I've managed to capture the flavor of Bailey, I think. Mine is only about 2 scale miles long or a little more, but it has the same yard trees. I've left in the "old steam-era turntables", since I think that they're still useful things in the diesel age. This being a freelanced railroad, I feel free to keep things around that have since surrendered to the accountants' red ink. As big as the yard is today, you can see places where tracks have been torn up.
My last comment is- wow, they sure have lots of coal unit-trains in the yard! Wonder why they aren't in service?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 03:43:55 pm by Jeff »
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Offline RhB_HJ

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #163 on: June 02, 2012, 04:28:04 pm »
................
And an 8 track main(!!!). HJ complains when I put in a 4 track? Hmm.

Perhaps they really need an eight track main to keep the amount of traffic flowing. Hmmmmm ??? ??? That's how the 1:1 guys usually handle it.

Quote from: Jeff
...........
You will note a feature that is seldom if ever modeled: the containment dike. The EPA and OSHA mandate that there be a containment dike around every tank capable of holding in the contents of a full tank plus a heavy rain storm.


European models have been produced with those berms as part of the base for many, many years

Quote from: Jeff
One thing that strikes me is how small the yard is. Yes, small.


Real railroads - I emphasize that almost constantly! - build only as much as they need to do any given job in the most efficient way. Not that this would impress some of the modelling fraternity whose "bigger is always better" layout plans one could easily pick apart by applying the theoretical max traffic flow on any given mainline, along with the size of the hidden staging yards.
Railroads make money when wheels roll and they also make money when their cars are standing at their customers.
Hans-Joerg Mueller
Coldstream, BC   Canada

http://www.rhb-grischun.ca
http://www.easternmountainmodels.com

My train videos

Win7Pro 64bit; 8 GB RAM; i5 2.67GHz; 1920x1080 22" display

Offline Jeff

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Re: Large N-scale layout
« Reply #164 on: June 02, 2012, 10:19:54 pm »
@HJ- Take a look at all the published track plans with fuel/oil/chemical tanks and see what percentage have containment dikes. As for what is modeled in Europe... this is NOT a European layout. Just in case you missed that.
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