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General Category => Track plans => Topic started by: poppy2201 on October 09, 2012, 09:48:31 PM

Title: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 09, 2012, 09:48:31 PM
Greetings to all!  It has been a long time since I participated on this forum.  I had started a layout while living in Oklahoma but never got past the benchwork before we moved back to Florida.  We have been here almost a year and a half and I decided to get something going with the room I have available.  I read with interest the plan in this thread, http://www.anyrail.com/forum_en/index.php/topic,1189.0.html (http://www.anyrail.com/forum_en/index.php/topic,1189.0.html), and it offered a lot of what I would like to accomplish with my existing rolling stock, structures etc. and fits within the room with what exists already.

I have attached a .jpg file of the room and also the Anyrail file (still using 4.26.0) and if anyone has any input I welcome all comments.  A few caveats, the room still has to function as an office and guest room.  The walk-in closet cannot be used.  We live in a nice apartment complex but as with all apartments, spare storage space is at a premium.

Thanks for taking the time to look and comment.  By the way, I am looking at extending the upper leg with a 24 x 30 module so if you have any thoughts how to extend and arrange the upper leg of the track, let me know.

Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 10, 2012, 12:55:41 AM
Okay, I added the 24 x 30 module and extended the track.  The biggest benefit allows me to have more track servicing the grain elevator, thus more grain cars.  It also allows me to have a longer access road for trucks delivering grain to the elevator and so I can have several trucks lined up for delivery.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 19, 2012, 04:31:44 AM
I've gone through a couple of revisions now.  Most notably, I extended the depth of the end modules by 6 inches each.  Now the plan has a minimum track radius of 12 1/2.

Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 20, 2012, 04:05:55 AM
The track plan has now evolved to version 5.  I took suggestions from a couple of people on the forum at Trainboard.  I now like the operations and scenic possibilities with this plan.

Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: David on October 20, 2012, 11:03:13 AM
What type of trains are you running?
I ask because it seems to me that the situation at Black Diamond Junction is troublesome.
Traffic to the Oil dealer needs to revert on the mainline.
Also, the mainline is on the diverting end of the eastern turnout which is something to avoid.

David.

Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 20, 2012, 04:38:03 PM
Quote from: David on October 20, 2012, 11:03:13 AM
What type of trains are you running?
I ask because it seems to me that the situation at Black Diamond Junction is troublesome.
Traffic to the Oil dealer needs to revert on the mainline.
Also, the mainline is on the diverting end of the eastern turnout which is something to avoid.

David.

Thanks David for the reply.  I will be running GP38-2's and a MP15-DC switcher or two.  I'll take a look at those areas of concern to you and see what can be done.  It's been kind of hard trying to get things just right and look good as one of my main goals was to keep the min. radius at 12 1/2.

By the way, thanks for all of the hard work with the program.  I really enjoy working with it and have found it to be the easiest track planning software to use.  As soon as extra funds become available I'll upgrade to version 5.2 and working with it.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 20, 2012, 07:45:05 PM
Hi David, if you have time take a look at version 6.  I think I have resolved some of the issues.  If not, let me know.  Thanks.

Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: David on October 22, 2012, 05:24:51 PM
I think it's slightly better.

However to make sure, you should tell a bit more about the freight you expect to be delivered in this area.

David.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 22, 2012, 06:32:18 PM
Quote from: David on October 22, 2012, 05:24:51 PM
I think it's slightly better.

However to make sure, you should tell a bit more about the freight you expect to be delivered in this area.

David.

Thanks David,  version 6 above was not going to allow me to have a min. radius of 12 ½ .  I extended the lower module of the U by 12 inches.  This is the most I can go and still maintain the overall functionality of the room.  By extending the module I can maintain an overall min. radius of 12 ½.  At Black Diamond Jct the oil dealer will receive a couple of 11,000 gallon tankers maybe 2 or 3 times a week.  I haven't decided yet how to utilize the straight track coming off the crossing, any suggestions. My locomotive power in inventory are GP38-2's and MP15DC switchers.  As always comments and suggestions are welcome.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: Mike from CT on October 22, 2012, 10:44:27 PM
I didn't really have a lot of time, but I wanted to take a stab at it, so here's a suggestion for a revised yard area.  (It's in a new layer.  Your track plan is still there in the .any file - hidden, but untouched.)  I think I labelled the reasons for all the various tracks.  I know I forgot to include the turnout to staging, but that shouldn't change much of anything to fix.

If I get some more time (or steal it from working on another plan), I may try playing with some of the other areas....

Mike

(Added by edit:  The bit of the thoroughfare up by the bridge is so a road engine can escape a train (or connecting to one) moving in a counter-clockwise direction, or add/remove a caboose on a train running in a clockwise one.




Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 22, 2012, 11:21:27 PM
Mike, I appreciate your efforts but I am still using version 4.26.0 so I can't open your file.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: Mike from CT on October 23, 2012, 12:20:48 AM
Amazing how long it took to do the first time, but how quickly it could be reproduced (in Anyrail v.4), the second.  :)

I wasn't quite as precise on the measurements, but they're within 100th's of an inch.  BTW, I made the outer curves according to NMRA recommendations - 1 5/16" larger - so the inner curves are 12 1/2" and the outer curves 13 13/16".  I also went with the Atlas #5 turnouts.  No reason to go larger if you're using 12 1/2" as your minimum radius.

Mike
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 23, 2012, 12:25:05 AM
Thanks Mike, I'll take a look at it tonight and work with it.  Appreciate all your efforts.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 23, 2012, 03:29:30 PM
Mike, I had a chance to work with it last night and I like how the change to the yard looks.  The only thing I didn't see that you mentioned were the labelled reasons for all the various tracks.  Just a thought I had, where you had the bit of track by the bridge for a road engine escape, how about putting in a Warren Double Truss Bridge instead of the single bridge and run the track across the river and connect to the main making it a full passing siding?  Your thoughts....

Again thanks and it looks pretty good.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: Mike from CT on October 23, 2012, 08:49:45 PM
Thanks.

Here's the same one, with the track usage labelled.

On extending that short lead up by the bridge.... I wouldn't.

The problem you'll have is the same one that exists at Black Diamond Junction - the "passing siding" really only works off the yard lead.  It can't be used, for example, for two trains traveling the main to pass each other and continue on the main.  At BDJ, that's easily fixed by reversing turnouts that connect the main and passing siding on the left (and a bit of finagling where the yard lead joins the passing siding, if necessary).  We could add a passing siding down by the yard. (The A/D track is not intended for that purpose - it should be left solely for trains entering/leaving the yard), but it makes things crowded and, if you have multiple folks running multiple trains, causes human congestion on the lower side of the layout (one engineer on the main, one waiting on the passing siding and one running the yard engine.  Heaven help you if there's another train - the hot shot frm staging - just entering the yard....)
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 23, 2012, 11:11:28 PM
Thanks Mike for your efforts.  Here's what I call version 8 with your suggestions and some added scenery.  If there are any other suggestions, let me know.



Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: glakedylan on October 25, 2012, 12:04:04 AM

FWIW...just my thoughts.

I would expand the width of the mushrooms to 36" just to be able to use a minimum of 17" radius on the 90+ degree curves (and still hide them in a tunnel with good accessibility for maintenance).

the corners of the enlarged mushrooms could be rounded or have 45 degree angles cut into them so as to keep the distance between the two at 24" minimum.

i have had for a couple of Christmas an under the tree oval using Kato super-elevated 16.325 and 15" double radius curves and am disappointed each year with the length of train that restricts me to as for the pulling power around the tight curves. i would really have difficulties with a permanent model railroad with too tight of radius for running trains with 12 cars, yet alone passenger cars.

again, just my thoughts...FWIW

respectfully,
Gary L Lake Dillensnyder
(still overwhelmed with moving in and getting house organized)
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 25, 2012, 12:10:17 AM
I have attached a slightly modified version of BDA 8 that I will call BDA 8.1, which incorporates some minor mods, mostly visual.
1.  Road along staging not really needed.  Removed and added 2 more tracks.
2.  Tried to make passing sidings equal to staging, no need for them to be any longer.
3.  Angled the track by the Depot a couple of degrees so it is not parallel to the wall (visually should be more interesting).
4.  Angled the front truss bridge by about 5 degrees.  This is another visual thing but it also helped smooth out the curves.

I'm pretty happy with the plan at this point unless anyone has any other suggestions.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: Mike from CT on October 25, 2012, 02:35:30 AM
I can't leave well enough alone.... :)

One important change - I reversed the crossover to the left of Black Diamond Junction (highlighted in red area).  That one's important, because it allows trains passing on the main to pass without running through the yard.

I left in the connection between the drill track and the passing side for some flexibility, but that short section of green track and turnout connecting it to the passing siding really isn't necessary for operations.

Also, although it may take a bit more track re-aligning than I gave it, I added a second depot on the line.  It's be nice for any passenger service to have more than one stop to make.

One change I didn't make, but you might want to check, is placing the oil tanks between the two tracks.  I'd think both tracks would be on one side of the tanks, possibly with the oil *truck* loading facilities on the other (street) side of the tanks.

That said and done, I think you'll have a layout that'll give you plenty of operating pleasure - and let you share the operations with a friend or two.

I expect pictures of the construction progress.... :)
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: Mike from CT on October 25, 2012, 02:37:37 AM
It'd help if I actgually attached the attachments....
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 25, 2012, 05:21:39 PM
Quote from: Mike from CT on October 25, 2012, 02:35:30 AM
I can't leave well enough alone.... :)

One important change - I reversed the crossover to the left of Black Diamond Junction (highlighted in red area).  That one's important, because it allows trains passing on the main to pass without running through the yard.

I left in the connection between the drill track and the passing side for some flexibility, but that short section of green track and turnout connecting it to the passing siding really isn't necessary for operations.

Also, although it may take a bit more track re-aligning than I gave it, I added a second depot on the line.  It's be nice for any passenger service to have more than one stop to make.

One change I didn't make, but you might want to check, is placing the oil tanks between the two tracks.  I'd think both tracks would be on one side of the tanks, possibly with the oil *truck* loading facilities on the other (street) side of the tanks.

That said and done, I think you'll have a layout that'll give you plenty of operating pleasure - and let you share the operations with a friend or two.

I expect pictures of the construction progress.... :)

I know how hard it is to leave well enough alone, been there and am still there! :)

As far as reversing the crossover, that makes sense.

In regard to a second depot, I would think you would not want it on the main in case a fast freight was coming through, correct?  I suppose a siding would have to be engineered to accommodate it.

As far as the oil dealer is concerned here is my thought.  In the town I used to live in real estate was at a premium for the short line that ran through town.  There was an oil dealer and they would bring tanker cars onto a siding they had and also there was a spur off the siding.  The cars would be left there and the oil trucks would come to the cars and the oil would be directly off loaded into the trucks and when empty the cars would be picked up.  I think I could have a propane/oil dealer with propane tanks on one track and then the oil tankers could be delivered to the other track and off loaded directly onto waiting trucks.  This way I could have two different types of commodities delivered.  Sound plausible to you?

Again, thanks for your help.

Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: Mike from CT on October 25, 2012, 07:53:45 PM
Locating depot on the main....

As a general rule, passenger service was the highest priority.  When there was a meet scheduled, as general rule, the higher priority train got the main and the lower the siding (there were exceptions - e.g., length of train and who got there first).  But it was usually a scheduling issue.  In which track got the (Passenger) depot, that was usually the main,  although I suspect physical layout of the site also affected the choice.

The oil depot....

I have  a suspicion that somewhere one can find a prototype for anything - and I'm no expert on oil depots  (around here, oil comes up the Connecticut River on barges), but my suspicion is that, if the oil or propane is received by rail, the tanks are between track(s) and the truck loading facility, when possible.  If the fuel company receives both oil and propane (and enough of either to store onsite, rather than just transloading from railcar to truck), there'd be two separate facilities each with its own receiving racks, storage and truck loading facilities.

BTW, for scenicking, you might park a fuel delivery truck truck by the engine servicing track - small facilities refueled their diesels directly from delivery truck. Handy to have a fuel dealer just down the road.... :)
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 26, 2012, 02:39:18 PM
Thanks Mike for all your efforts.  As soon as construction begins I'll start posting pictures.  My next step is to go through storage and inventory my stuff and see what else I need to purchase.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 28, 2012, 12:54:21 AM
Spent the day pulling all my stuff out of the store room, organizing it and taking an inventory of my track.  Looks like I will be needing about 25 more sticks of flex and and 33 total of #5 turnouts.  With the current shortage of flex and #5 turnouts, it's probably a good thing that I'm not starting this until after the first of the year. ;D
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: Mike from CT on October 28, 2012, 10:48:36 AM
That's what you get for using Atlas....  There's no shortage of Peco. ::) ;D :)


Signed,
A confirmed Peco user
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 30, 2012, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: Mike from CT on October 28, 2012, 10:48:36 AM
That's what you get for using Atlas....  There's no shortage of Peco. ::) ;D :)


Signed,
A confirmed Peco user

Alright as you said before and I agreed, can't leave well enough alone.  Spent the better part of the day redoing the plan using Peco code 55.  I wanted to see what the difference in pricing versus what remaining Atlas track I have to buy.  I just have to do some minor adjustments.

The other thing I did was eliminate the caboose and runaround track in the yard.  I don't own any cabeese and don't intend on buying any so I thought that area is not necessary.  Also, I hate switchback's so I eliminated the team track and just have the RIP track.

When I finish with the refinements, I'll post the .any file using Peco track.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: Mike from CT on October 30, 2012, 11:03:45 PM
The caboose track is strictly optional, but you really need the runaround/thoroughfare.  Otherwise. there's no way to get the engine off of a train arriving from staging without or getting a car from the A/D or classification tracks to the R.I.P. track without using the main.


I like team tracks because they give me a place to "unload" cars that I have but have no legitimate industry to receive, but it's optional as well.   (The funny thing is that, without a runaround, it's easier to serve the switch-backed team track than the R.I.P track that serves as the switchback.)
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on October 31, 2012, 02:36:50 AM
SAME PLAN USING PECO CODE 55: kept everything including RIP/Team Track.

Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on November 07, 2012, 09:41:15 PM
Mike, if you see this I forgot to ask an important question.  Since I'm new to Peco, what turnouts do I use if I decide to go with Peco?
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: Mike from CT on November 07, 2012, 11:58:12 PM
Quote from: poppy2201 on November 07, 2012, 09:41:15 PM
Mike, if you see this I forgot to ask an important question.  Since I'm new to Peco, what turnouts do I use if I decide to go with Peco?

If you mean insulfrog versus electrofrog, you really don't have a choice - the short, medium and long turnouts don't come in anything except electrofrog versions.

If you mean short, medium or long, it's a matter of choice.  With 12" curves, the short ones won't be a limitation and those are the ones you used (mostly) in the design.  I use mostly the mediums in the yards and spurs.

The crossings will need frog juicers/autoreversers if you go with the electro- version ones.

See http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm for wiring instructions.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on November 08, 2012, 01:07:23 AM
Thanks Mike for the info and the link.  Greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on November 10, 2012, 03:36:47 PM
I did a redo of the Peco track plan using #6 turnouts and I must say it works out better in the yard with these.  I also redid the Atlas  track plan using all #5's except for one #10.  The dilemma I face now is whether to use my existing inventory of Atlas track (of which I will have to buy all #5's since I only have #7's) and wait for availability of flex and turnouts or go with Peco.  I did a cost analysis and I would have to spend $243.57 more for all Peco versus going all Atlas.  I guess I have to decide whether to wait for Atlas (who knows how long that will be) or try to stay on schedule and begin in January like I wanted to and go Peco.
No matter, I have attached both updated plans (Atlas and Peco).


Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: poppy2201 on November 12, 2012, 04:06:00 PM
I really need to stop tinkering and start building. ;D  However, that still has to wait until after January 1st.  What I have done now is mostly cosmetic.  I moved the names of the towns and stops and some other minor changes.  The biggest change is at the upper leg where I eliminated the siding.  Instead I envision a longer run that will traverse through a cut to help hide the track along with some trees.  To me this gives an appearance of running through the countryside.

I moved Elizabethtown to the center of the "U".  Elizabethtown use to have passenger service, but with the decline in ridership over the years the BD&A discontinued service.  The old depot still remains, but now houses an art gallery, gift shop and a small museum dedicated to the history of the BD&A.  The BD&A no longer stops in Elizabethtown.

Augustaville was moved to the lower leg.  Only one area of Augustaville is represented and that is service to the grain elevator, a mobile home park and some light non-rail industries.  A removable scenic divider is in place to give one a sense of two scenes, on one side the elevator, etc. and viewing from the other side is Sherman Yard.

I personally think this helps break up things with multiple views.
Title: Re: Black Diamond & Augusta Railroad
Post by: Mike from CT on November 12, 2012, 04:36:13 PM
A couple of things to think about.....


1) you have only one passing siding (in Black Diamond Jct.).  You really can't use the track running through the grain elevator or the A/D track for meets of trauns running on the main.


2) Using Peco medium switches, you'll need to insert short sections on the ladder track to get better spacing for the classification tracks.  They're too close to each other as is.  (It's not a problem, you have the room.)


3) The engine servicing track really needs vehicle access space along one side or the other.  It's where the fuel truck pulls up to refuel your engines.  Of course, call it an engine layover track and don't worry too much about refueling the engines and you've got yourself covered....  ;D


4) For some reason, you introduced a bit of an ess curve in the thoroughfare track to the left of the caboose track, which is why there's a filler necessary to the right of the top turnout for the caboose track, but none  where the A/D track meets the drill track.  There's nothing wrong with it - it may even make the scene look a bit less "rigid" - but be aware of it  (and watch the Center to center spacing on the thoroughfare, caboose and ladder tracks, as well.)


I do love the story for the Old Depot.  We have several in 1:1 scale that description fits to a "T", here in Connecticut....  :)



Title: Scaled Down Version of the BD&A
Post by: poppy2201 on November 14, 2012, 08:59:10 PM
I really have the "itch" to start running trains again.  It has been way too long.  The plan for the BD&A that I have been working on just does not seem feasible right now.  Depending on whether I used Atlas or Peco, the costs for track right now would be anywhere from $545 (for Atlas) to $789 (for Peco).  This is not counting the fact of building the bench work (just under $300).  So for now I am going to postpone building this project until I am in a better financial situation.

On the bright side I still have all my Kato Unitrack from a previous build, so I am going to resurrect that plan.  It was originally built on a hollow core door.  Except this time I am going to build 3 modules that I can eventually use for the U-shaped plan in the future.  All I want to do for now is run trains and some switching.  Nothing complicated.

I want to thank all who have contributed ideas to the U-shaped plan, especially Mike.  Rest assured I have not given up on that plan, just need to wait a while.