For some reason I have just noticed an odd circumstance. Perhaps it was there before this current 4.9 version, but I never noticed it.
After zooming in and working on an object, if I then zoom out, even a little bit the whole layout JUMPS to the bottom right-most corner, from ANYwhere where I was. Most disconcerting.
I have not observed any change with the "Zoom" function in 4.9.
I have spent many hours figuring out the causes of several issues with the "Zoom" function, and David is aware of them, however I don't think I have seen exactly what you are describing. Can you post a simple example with instructions on how to duplicate what you are seeing?
Choose Any .any file.
Zoom all the way in. (Make it as large as possible.)
Go to top.
Work on something.
Hit the zoom button to make the layout appear smaller by one click, or more.
For me, it jumps to the bottom right-most corner from anywhere in the layout.
I'm sorry but in my files I can not duplicate what you are seeing. As I stated earlier there are several known issues with image position and the zoom function.
Can you attach YOUR .any file that shows the problem, and describe exactly what you are doing. If I can duplicate it I can probably tell if this is the result of the known issues, or if you have discovered a new problem to solve.
Please be specific as there are at least 3 ways to change the zoom level, and the issue may be specific to only one of those ways.
Quote from: Steve Raiford on November 29, 2010, 05:26:19 PM
.... describe exactly what you are doing. If I can duplicate it I can probably tell if this is the result of the known issues, or if you have discovered a new problem to solve.
My suggestion is to contact David and let him check the list of known issues. David knows his own product as nobody else.
I don't mind attaching my file. Here it is, and open to well deserved criticism.
As stated, if I am zoomed in using the zoom + - at the bottom right hand corner of the screen, and at the top somewhere and have been working on objects, if I then return to that bottom-right hand corner and click on the - one or more times, it jumps to the bottom right hand of my layout, regardless of where I was previously.
Hope you can solve it.
Sorry, Bill, but it didn't do that on my systems (1 XP, 1 Vista 64).
Oh, well. Its Monday.
Future Digital & David
Thank you for sharing the .any file. Yes, I see what you are talking about.
This is a known issure in AR. It appears as a zoom issue, but is not a bug in the zoom function.
David is aware of the problem, and knows what he needs to do to fix it. When this is changed and the other known zoom bug is fixed, all the zoom functions will be much less frustrating for the user.
There is a partial workaround that some users find helpful. Define the working space much much larger than you really want, and then do your work in the center of that space, not in any of the corners. This approach will require that you take extra care in printing or exporting, and may impact some individual computers with more limited resources.
If you have a scroll mouse on your computer, you also may find "Cntrl" + "Mouse Scroll Wheel" is a better way to zoom in and out.
Just on your layout i'm assuming the green bit is the surface so to speak am I correct? If so i'm very concerned about the reach in a lot of the areas on the layout. Its the biggest mistake i made in my last layout (16' x 14' and it was hard to start again) but changing it so there is no area that is more than 3' (2 and a half is more ideal). There are some areas with a 4' reach and having done this before it's hard to get to unless you climb onto the table or have clever hatches but if it's a major main line or switching area you want really easy access. Nothing worse than continually having to remove a hatch cause something isn't quite right or having to use the hatch to make repairs or update scenery later!
Only other thing is what do the black lines represent?
Unfortunately, this thing just grew, like Topsie. Out of control. I occasionally shrink and grow various areas, all the while knowing full well that I am crazy to have ANYTHING over 3 feet. I agree, 2.5 feet would be better, but ambition knows no bounds or common sense. This thing is FAR from built, so I hope to refine it as I learn from those who make kind comments.
The black lines? I am not able to go look at this moment, but the only black lines I remember are roads (3 inches) and a few dividers and rulers. Don't really know what you are referring to. Sorry.
You are so lucky! All that room for trains! I could do with about half that and still be happy...
With great gifts comes great responsibility!@ I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right! I MUST get this right!
If I try your tricks on my laptop (minimal RAM, Win XP Pro), I can get it to jump to the right when zooming out... IF I'm on the right side of the layout. Why this should make any difference, I have no idea.
Next- If I had the (scale) miles of space you do, I'd probably do something like this... (see included file)(feel free to imagine another dozen industrial sidings and such)
I love it. You really are "industrious," aren't you. Thank you for putting in so much effort.
Would you care to suggest placement of some of the building that I already have, shown on the version I am sending back?
Any others want to chime in?
You have challenged me to give you more explanation about the "jumping" when zooming. Actually the jumping is a defensive mechanism of the underlying operating system, in your case Windows XP Pro, but as far as I know all incarnations of Windows will exhibit this same behavior.
Any time the viewing area is changed either with scroll bars, the mouse, or other control items such as buttons or menus, a situation may be created that if allowed to proceed would cause the operating system to loose track of the mouse position.
If the mouse position is actually lost, then then all sorts of wierd things would happen such as clicking on one object, and possibly selecting a different object that may not even be on the screen.
Windows mechanism to retain an accurate mouse position is to move the displayed working area of the screen in whatever manner it needs to so that the displayed area never extends past the edge of the maximum working area. This is the unpredictable "jumping" we often see.
When the active working area is tucked against any side of the maximum available area, this will happen on a regular basis. The solution is to put the working space in the center of the maximum allowable space, as this will minimize the probability of the area being displayed attempting to grow outside of the maximum working space, a condition which would cause loss of mouse position.
Yes, sometimes the explanation is more complicated than the cure.
Interesting explanation. I'll pass along that it happens whether or not I expand the workspace well beyond the actual layout that Bill posted. Interesting, hmm? And it doesn't happen when AR is running under Vista. Perhaps some different mechanism for mouse tracking...
Indeed, interesting explanation. Unfortunate, the story is very wrong and 100% not true. Jumping is not a Windows mechanism. The operating system never looses track of the mouse position. And for sure, Windows will never move the displayed workarea in AR, and never does some unpredictable jumping.
Everything that happens in AR is programmed by David and his team. They decided what to do when a user wants to zoom and how AR reacts.
If you would read my words correctly, I did not say that Windows would lose track of the mouse. What I said was that Windows takes a predictable action so it does not lose the mouse position, but this action is unexpected to the user, and is what appears to the user as the "jumping".
Since you don't like my explanation, I will leave it to you to explain to the forum why and how David programmed AR zoom function to work the way it does when the "Cntrl + scroll mouse" zoom function is used.
I always look forward to expanding my understanding.
What gauge are are you working in, HO?
Seems like a lot of track for a room 19' X 13' with a 5' closet.
Since I'm very new at this I have no prospective on size.
Capt. Brigg ::)
The jumping around may be a function of Windows. I am running Windows 7 and have noticed when using my Windows Explorer if I open a folder in the left frame, it sometimes jumps to the bottom of the widow with the open folder at the top. This is aggravating when working between two folders, moving files. Just a personal insight.
Capt. Brigg ;D
This really is a reply to that request for further suggestions on my idea for your space. I'm moving the discussion to the Track Plans forum, since this really is off-topic here.
I'm not going to till you fix your table depth!!! ;D
N scale I have to say seems to be super popular these days...
Soulnet, we try to leave personal matters out, but how do you know Bill's arms aren't 5 feet long? :D
Yeah, N scale is popular, though never as much as HO, I guess. I hope it gets more popular, since it means more and better rolling stock and scenery items. It came about (as I recall) in much the same way as HO- an attempt to stuff just as much into smaller spaces. On the other hand, it also offers a way to build a BIG layout in a space that many people might have available. I was initially worried that the rolling stock would be too small to work on or that it would result in trains that looked, and worse, performed like toys. Fortunately, that's not the case. My only gripe with it (besides the high price of ALL scales) is that scale 2 x 4 lumber isn't easy to find or make.
I am using HO Gauge. I had it on hand, so I used it.
That's ok, I forgive you for using HO... :D