Incorrect FasTrack Track Length (AR v4.16.4)

[paulp575]

There's an error in the length of the Lionel 12029 (Straight connector). According to AR it's 5" whereas the Lionel website and manual that comes with the item describes it as 'One 10" Insulated Section and two 5" Isolated Sections'. Unfortunately this is one of those Lionel FasTrack items that contains more than one piece. However, I think the basic length should be 10" as opposed to 5".

Thanks,

Paul

[David]

OK thanks, we'll take a look at it.

David.

[David]

I think it's OK as it is.
In AnyRail two pieces are defined. 12029 and 12029A. The latter is the 10" insulated section.

David.

[paulp575]

I think it's OK as it is.
In AnyRail two pieces are defined. 12029 and 12029A. The latter is the 10" insulated section.

David.

I would like to disagree.
The items in AR should match the item numbers and descriptions on either the Lionel website or their catalogs.

Having said that, I don't see a 6-12029A in either.
And I'm not sure how you determine which is the first piece and which is the second piece.

Looking at the actual item and their website and catalogs, there are actually three pieces:

Isolated Track Section 5" (2)
Insulated Track Section 10" (1)

Not sure how you want to handle this, but if you purchase 6-12029, you get all three pieces. The two 5" pieces are also available separately as 6-12060.

Unfortunately this is not the only piece of FasTrack that comes as a set or the individual pieces can be purchased individually.

I think the solution may be that if you select the set, i.e., 6-12029, AR would somehow show all three pieces. With the 6-12029, you really have to use all three pieces. However, there are other reasons you could need/use 6-12020 separately (such as creating a block section).

Paul

[David]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply.

I admit, it's a bit problematic to assign part numbers when they're not really available.
This is the same with some value packs where you get turnouts and straights etc in one box.

In general, in cases like this if the parts have no number of their own, we give them letters to indicate they come from the same package. Of course this disturbs the list of materials.

Note: The 5" pieces are not the same as the 12060! With the 12060 you can isolate all three rails, with 12029 only one rail is cut (according to the Lionel FasTrack Book by Robert Schleicher).

David.

[paulp575]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply.

Note: The 5" pieces are not the same as the 12060! With the 12060 you can isolate all three rails, with 12029 only one rail is cut (according to the Lionel FasTrack Book by Robert Schleicher).

David.

I stand corrected!!! Thanks for clarifying that for me.

So what's the differences between the 6-12029A pieces and the 6-12024 (I don't have a 5" half straight track to compare with)?

So if I wanted to create block sections on my layout, I'm presuming I'd use the 6-12060? Is that a correct assumption?

I just  received Robert Schleider's book and am trying to make sense of the pieces I'm going to need to be able to run two trains on one layout. I think, thanks to AR, I've got the track layout configured, just trying to understand which pieces I need as I have to have at least one 42" curve (which Lionel doesn't make so I'm going to have to use the O48 curves). And then the smaller O36 on the inner loop.

Thanks for your clearing this up!

Paul

[paulp575]

Hi Paul,

I admit, it's a bit problematic to assign part numbers when they're not really available.
This is the same with some value packs where you get turnouts and straights etc in one box.

In general, in cases like this if the parts have no number of their own, we give them letters to indicate they come from the same package. Of course this disturbs the list of materials.

That makes sense. However, I don't recall seeing that anywhere in the documentation/manual. Might want to consider adding that in a future update to the manual (yes, I know, more work!).

If that's the case (adding a suffix letter to catalog numbers that contain more than one piece), shouldn't most of the Lionel FasTrack switches have suffix letters becuase if you look at the attached listing, you'll see many of the FasTrack switches (and some other items) also have more than one piece in the set.

The attached file is what I compiled after doing a lot of research on the Lionel web site (including looking at the posted manuals) verifying what all comes with the various catalog items. If the formatting survives, it should be easy to tell which pieces have additional items included.

Thanks,

Paul

[paulp575]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply.

I admit, it's a bit problematic to assign part numbers when they're not really available.
This is the same with some value packs where you get turnouts and straights etc in one box.

In general, in cases like this if the parts have no number of their own, we give them letters to indicate they come from the same package. Of course this disturbs the list of materials.

Note: The 5" pieces are not the same as the 12060! With the 12060 you can isolate all three rails, with 12029 only one rail is cut (according to the Lionel FasTrack Book by Robert Schleicher).

David.

So how does one tell if the piece is similar to another piece or unique? For example, I have the Uncoupling Track (6-12020) which is 5" long. The package also includes a section of half track which is also 5" long. Is this half track the same as 6-12024 or is it unique (I don't have any 6-12024 right now so can't look to see if it's different)? The manual that comes with 6-12020 says you can place the half track either adjacent to the uncoupling track so it fits where a 10" straight track was or it can be placed on the other side of the layout to extend the sides. So in that case I'm presuming it's the same as the 6-12024.

Trying to get an idea on all of this as I plan my layout and before buying any additional track sections.

Thanks,

Paul

[David]

Hi Paul,

Many of the Lionel special items come with some extra bits of track. Indeed, this is usually a normal track part.

With all those extra parts, it's quite a puzzle to find out what packings you need to buy, indeed. Typically something a computer can do. However, Lionel is only one brand. Many brands have package deals, extension sets, etc. To do this well, a lot of extra work is involved. I'd rather take that on as one project.

David.

[paulp575]

Hi Paul,

Many of the Lionel special items come with some extra bits of track. Indeed, this is usually a normal track part.

With all those extra parts, it's quite a puzzle to find out what packings you need to buy, indeed. Typically something a computer can do. However, Lionel is only one brand. Many brands have package deals, extension sets, etc. To do this well, a lot of extra work is involved. I'd rather take that on as one project.

David.

I fully understand.

I have done some research based upon the picture of the 6-12060 in the Lionel FasTrack Book by Robert Schleicher) and what I currently have.

It looks like the following three items contain special isolated track sections that come as part of the set that are not the same as 6-12060:

6-12029 - Accessory Activator Pack 10"
6-12052 - Grade Crossing with Flashers 10"
6-12062 - Grade Crossing with Gates and Flashers 10"

So I've attached the list I use for FasTrack that contains the above corrections. I've added those extra pieces by using the A suffix for 6-12052 and 6-12062.

Hope this helps others as well.

Thanks for your work on this,

Paul

[paulp575]

I think it's OK as it is.
In AnyRail two pieces are defined. 12029 and 12029A. The latter is the 10" insulated section.

David.

After carefully reading the owner's manual for 12029, that second piece you refer to is actually two 5" pieces (see attached 6-12029.pdf). That owner's manual shows several examples of how to connect all three pieces. In each diagram, the 12029A is on opposite ends of the 12029 piece.

Please update so it can be correct in the next release.

Thanks,

Paul

[David]

Hi Paul,

I think the problem is here that it's a set, where AnyRail only has individual track elements.
So indeed the user needs to take care that he uses the parts as indicated (so 2x12029, 1x12029A as they're named in AnyRail).

We have thought about adding the notion of sets, but that would only really help in the list of materials.
To check the correct application of such track items is very complex, as there are so many situations in which you can use them.

David.

[paulp575]

Hi Paul,

I think the problem is here that it's a set, where AnyRail only has individual track elements.
So indeed the user needs to take care that he uses the parts as indicated (so 1x120289, 2x12029A as they're named in AnyRail).

We have thought about adding the notion of sets, but that would only really help in the list of materials.
To check the correct application of such track items is very complex, as there are so many situations in which you can use them.

David.

I'm not concerned about the individual track elements. What I am concerned about is the fact that the length of piece 6-12029 is incorrectly stated. It should be 5", not 10".

I am beginning to loose faith with this program as there's just too many incorrect designations.

I'd strongly suggest you take a look at the RR-Track program. They've got it right.

Might I suggest that when there is an item that has more than one piece, you list the basic item and then each additional piece that is part of the package using suffix letters, such as:

6-12029 - Accessory Activator Pack 10"
6-12029A - Isolator (Block) Track Section 5"
6-12029B - Isolator (Block) Track Section 5"

This way someone who is using the program will at least know there is more than one part involved. And they have a choice to either use all three part numbers or find an equivalent piece that does the same thing. You could mention this somewhere in the User's Manual.
Where applicable, you could also mention in the User Manual or in the program itself, other peices that could be interchanged with the additional pieces.

Please update the program so it is correct, especially the number of pieces in each item as well as the length of each part.

Thanks,

Paul Y

[David]

Hi Paul,

I'm sorry for all the misunderstands. My fault!

I've only now looked a bit further into the list you compiled in  August. At the time you posted it we were on holiday so unfortunately it didn't get the attention it needs. Sorry about that.

I suggest we go through it, update the track descriptions in the library where needed/possible, see about the numbering of some parts, and give you a test version once we're done to see if it's any better.

David.

[Jeff]

@David,
Remember that I asked for a little thing called 'track grouping'? I'm willing to bet that having such groups available as a tool would solve your problem AND Paul's. Once you have track groups, you get the ability to take things like 6-12029A x 2 & 6-12029B x 1 and pack them into one track group. It should then be simple to stick the 6-12029 tag on it and the end-user will get all 3 parts to use as he should expect. The same situation is more than a single occurrence as you well know. There are quite a few examples of one manufacturer's catalog number actually including multiple parts.