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Setting heights

Started by David, June 07, 2012, 04:38:37 PM

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BritsTukker

I'll come back on what I mentioned previously.
I don't see why we have 'set height' and 'lock height' - if I set the height of something, it should stay there, and locking it should be redundant. With the present version, you can set the height at a point and it doesn't stay there - it also doesn't tell you that it's changed. I look upon this as a fault with the present version.
Normally, I don't ask for a fixed percentage grade: I set heights to give the required clearence, eg for tracks crossing each other, and then display the resulting percentage grade to make sure it's not too steep. I get the impression from the postings that many people don't work this way, but I| find it easier.
I would be happy with the 'create slope' checkbox if by default it was unchecked, and if I say 'set height' at a point I don't want to find that my input has been totally ignored because of exceeding the maximum grade - I expect the height to be taken and a warning provided to flag the excessive grade.

From the posts, I can see this subject could run and run.....


santerdam

David,

For 3. - If you set the height for ONE point in the middle of a long track, you have two 'other ends'. As far as I can see, it is not possible to indicate you only want a slope towards ONE end.

You wrote : "Only the height of selected track is touched."
I did a quick test .... also at the not selected track the height changed. All the selected track get the same height and the not selected track will slope.

Sander


David

#17
@Sander: True, that's how it works now. I was talking about the intended behaviour.
@BritsTukker: Yes, this has been discussed a lot! But by support email count, setting height seems to cause the most problems by our users.

By opening this poll I was hoping to get an idea how problematic it would be to remove the 'Create slopes' feature that causes so many support requests.
So far it seems to be acceptable if there would be a function to create slopes with a certain percentage.

David.
David Hoogvorst. Founder and Owner of DRail Software. Creator of AnyRail.

Jeff

Maybe it's time to set up a new poll. I vote with BritsT- I want to set the ends and let the grade take care of itself. Once created, it should use some warning if the grade is steeper than the set max grade. Note that: setting a max acceptable grade sometimes has to bend a little in order for a layout to fit our spaces, so don't slam the door in our faces while creating the grade without letting us do it and THEN adjust heights, if needed. Look at how other parts of the program operate, like a warning on flex too long. You don't stop people from stretching the flex, you let them create it and THEN cut where needed to keep the length within a single piece's size. So, if not casting max grade in iron offends some people then change the LABEL to something like 'Warn on too steep grade'.
Later,                                                AnyRail Fanatic
Jeff                      and Unofficial Guy Who Knows Almost Everything About It

David

@Jeff: The 'Smooth slope' does what you want I think.
Just select the track between the two endpoints for which you set a height and click 'Smooth slope'. Admittedly, this only works between a pair of endpoints.
The warning exists in the fact that the percentage is displayed in red when you exceed your own set maximum.

David.
David Hoogvorst. Founder and Owner of DRail Software. Creator of AnyRail.

BritsTukker

#20
Quote from: David on June 11, 2012, 02:04:27 PM

The warning exists in the fact that the percentage is displayed in red when you exceed your own set maximum.


I object! If I set a height at one point, then move to another point and set a second height (out of slope range) with the 'create slope' box checked (the present default), then the 'max slope' takes precedence, there is no warning and heights are screwed up all over the layout. including the first one I set.

David

@BritsTukker: It seems the discussion runs on multiple tracks at once here ;)

You are correct: percentages beyond the maximum percentage are not allowed in any input box.
However, when a too steep slope is created by other means, its percentage is displayed in red.

David.
David Hoogvorst. Founder and Owner of DRail Software. Creator of AnyRail.

RhB_HJ

Quote from: BritsTukker on June 11, 2012, 11:09:33 AM
I'll come back on what I mentioned previously.
I don't see why we have 'set height' and 'lock height' - if I set the height of something, it should stay there, and locking it should be redundant. With the present version, you can set the height at a point and it doesn't stay there - it also doesn't tell you that it's changed. I look upon this as a fault with the present version.
........................

Hey BT,

:D :D It does tell you that it changed - funky grades all over the place with some times incredible percentages - but it doesn't tell you where and what it changed first.

The possibility to "lock height" has saved me a lot of annoyance since I found out that it is the only way to keep things in place (lock both end points of a slope). In my book at present that is the only way to get consistent results and keep them in place.
Hans-Joerg Mueller
Coldstream, BC   Canada

http://www.rhb-grischun.ca

My train videos

Win7Pro 64bit; 8 GB RAM; i5 2.67GHz; 1920x1080 22" display

RhB_HJ

David,

What prevents AR from seeing two connected points at different Z-positions as a straight slope? Once the heights of those points have been specified, what allows them to change (other than operator input)?
Hans-Joerg Mueller
Coldstream, BC   Canada

http://www.rhb-grischun.ca

My train videos

Win7Pro 64bit; 8 GB RAM; i5 2.67GHz; 1920x1080 22" display

David

The only situation where points are changed while not explicitly selected is when 'Create slopes' is ticked in the Set Height Dialog.
If that box is ticked, all connecting track is inspected starting from the outer ends of the selected track. Working its way through it, AnyRail adjusts heights until the grade percentage of the current point and the next point is lower than the given maximum.

Think of it as a piece of rope on the floor where you lift the rope at some point. The bit of rope near where you lift it comes off the ground as well.

This is exactly what my original question is all about. Logical as it seems, I feel this is highly confusing.

David.
David Hoogvorst. Founder and Owner of DRail Software. Creator of AnyRail.

BritsTukker

Sofar, only 7 people have voted in this poll - not a great percentage of the users.
I haven't voted as the option I would choose is not there.
I would vote for 'I think I understand it - keep it but change the default to not selected'
Then I would actively have to do something when I was ready for it and not screw up what I'd already done because I forgot to uncheck the box.

Cheers.

santerdam

David,

You started this thread because you noticed many support-calls. That's a clear reason to change something.

How about splitting the dialog into 2 functions :
1. - Set Height : The actual function without checkbox.
2. - Create Slope : The actual functionality to set a height and create a percentage-slope (in ONE direction !).

By having 2 seperate functions, you don't have the confusion as you have now and each function has a clear name what it is supposed to do.

Sander

David

@Sander: I think you are right, or pointing in the right direction to make things easier. Thanks.

David.
David Hoogvorst. Founder and Owner of DRail Software. Creator of AnyRail.

Jeff

I want to add one tiny item. In the Create Slope box, please let the grade be set for the current operation ONLY and not be universal.
Later,                                                AnyRail Fanatic
Jeff                      and Unofficial Guy Who Knows Almost Everything About It

santerdam

Sorry, I don't understand what's wrong with the actual function for setting the grade percentage.

The default/initial value is what you indicated yourself as maximum and each operation you can override the default value.

BTW : I thought you never wanted to use the percentage-slope function.
Quote"I'm not happy with anything but the smooth slope tool. .... Nothing else makes any sense to me. "
Sander