Designing a 3-level Helix with 3 layers

[williamdor]

I'm a newbie and struggling with trying to integrate 3 layers with a helix. Of course, my helix needs to come back down after going up. To further complicate things with each layer change is a change in the level's diameter (I'll use radius only to mean track radius). As you ascend the 1st level is 46" in diameter, 2nd level is 39.5" in diameter and the 3rd level is 32" in diameter. When you get to the 3rd level you come back down and increase diameters accordingly. See this at http://www.scottpages.net/PizzaN.htm -- it's. So it's an endless helix I am doing w/ flextrack.

I tried laying out a helix on the 1st layer, but could not get it to span the additional layers -- something fundamentally wrong with my tiny knowledge of AnyRail at this point. I have a trial version. Is this a problem, or is it all on me? Kinda need to know. Comments appreciated.

[Mike from CT]

(Bill also asked me by message.  What follows is a copy of my response to his message)

Easy answer first....

The trial version of AnyRail will handle 50 pieces of track.  Since I use flex track, I don't worry about the actual lengths of each pice, only the total length.  (You'll find, when actually laying track, you won't cut a straight piece, an easement and a curve separately, you'll lay out the track with one piece, when possible.)  If you don't worry about lengths, a circle can be laid out with 4 pieces of track (AnyRail won' lay out curves over 90 degrees in a single piece).   That would allow 12 1/2 loops in the helix.

Now for the more difficult part.  I'm not sure why you want a cone shape that's narrower at the top, in the first place.  It'll be harder to support each layer and more difficult to see/reach derailments on the lower, outer layers (unless helix will be open from the outside).  I've seen inverted helices (wider at top) that allow for reduced grades.  But that aside....

That said and if I understand you correctly, I wouldn't necessarily bother with what AnyRail calls "layers".  They work best when you need see objects (track, shapes or anything else) that are under other objects  Your plan looks more like a spiral.  I'm not sure what geometry you'll use to transition from loop to loop (all the way up or same elevation between loops - the grade will increase as each loop shrinks in radius), but Id just lay each loop out, separately and indicate the start and end elevations and then use "smooth slope" to get an even grade around the loop.  Once I'd done that, I just connect the new loop to the previous one.

Final note on BoM.  AnyRail does it for track and named objects (under Files, then Info, then List of Materials).  It doesn't inventory shapes (including, for example the tree shapes it provides).  So, yes, it will give you a BoM for track.

BTW, AnyRail has a simple helix builder for helices that use a single radius.  You could use it for each loop.  Just draw the first curve, right click on it and select "Build Helix" from the pop-up menu.Hope that helps.

[Tom Springer]

Having never see a printed layout or a physical one with a multi-level helix, some questions based on my curiosity with this different style of helix and how it's done...

How does a multi-level helix work in the physical world?  A 'normal' 2-level helix is basically a vertical transfer table, or a fancy equivalent of the old A-B points where hidden track would be shown on published layout diagrams; one entry/exit at each level.  For a multi-level helix (presume simple 3-level for this discussion), there is (presumably) an "entry/exit" point at the middle level.  Is that accomplished by a turnout of some type, maybe curved?  Are there 2 turnouts, one on each side of the helix at that level so that upward-bound and downward-bound trains each have a turnout to enter the mid-level layer?  Are these turnouts on a grade themselves, or are they "level" (flat, all track ends of the turnout(s) at the same "height")?  Is a multi-level helix restricted to a single-track, or can it have double-track, one for each up-down direction?  Is this just a virtual concept or is there an actual helix in the real world that one can go look at, even virtually, to see how it actually works?  Any known layout that has one somewhere?

My curiosity as to how this is actually accomplished has just expanded greatly...

[Mike from CT]

In my case (some early attempts may be archived in the Tester's forum, but I had a disk crash and lost the plans if they haven't), I was designing a two level, mushroom layout.  (One where the levels are on top of one another, but viewed from the opposite sides.

I'm not a fan of helices for continuous running, as the trains can be "lost" in the helix and the operators have no idea what's going on for a prolonged period until the train appears out the other end.  In my case, the upper and lower ends were primarily staging loops, but the helix served one directional trains (e.g. eastbound loaded coal trains matched with westbound empties.  They were staged at the middle levels of a double tracked helix, to split the times a train was hidden between the start and end of it's run, but on different levels for each direction, so there was no crossing opposing traffic, but all staging tracks could be serviced from inside the helix, while the "main" (the helix, proper) was on the outside of the staging, to make sure anyone working in the helix didn't bump into a train.  The Helix came to be known as "The Helix From Hell" (and was accompanied, at the opposite end, by "The Climb from Hell", which contained 4 single loop Helices, stacked in 2 pairs, with one loop stacked on top of a later loop, viewed from the opposite side.

If that sounds confusing, I'm attaching The Climb's .any file, with the climb split into two layers - the lower and upper levels so you can see the 4 separate helices.

[cypherus]

Check out www.modelbuildings.org and on the top line tabs 'Useful Tools' were you will find a very simple Helix calculator, you will need to know a few details of your requirements to enter into it but it comes with a very good explanation and how to section.

As for how to connect or splice in different layers into a helix you might consider this idea. Sorry will have to do my best to describe it, on the road at the moment and have no way of uploading a drawing.

As you really cannot do this before you build the helix I would suggest using the free tool to calculate first a helix to your intermediate layer to find the best intersect angle, then your full helix to give you a finished product, which if you use the same dimensions increasing only the finish height  will give you in essence a continuation of the helix from your intermediate intersection point, doing the above gives you a position on the helix where you need to lead in your connection, having done this you will need to increase the width of the upslope side of the helix base board at that point by at least x2, initially increasing to a width that will cover the distance to your attachment point on the intermediate layer, say x 4, taking your track center line on the helix as your starting point mark a line across the width to indicate the point work start position and then the point divergent angle and track center line your going to use out from the helix to your splice point on the layout, a line either side of this for your baseboard or spline width gives you your first cut lines and a second line to continue your helix baseboard out edge circumference gives you your second cut line.

What your left with is a flexible 'Wing' emerging out from your helix on an increasing diameter cut this to match the edge of your base intermediate baseboard where you can either attach it using a plate or cut the intermediate baseboard to form an extension to the slope but what you are looking to do is form a gentle intersection between the flat baseboard and the sloping wing leading into the helix, install points and track and adjust as required. job done.