Hello and Advice

[FrankieDi]

Hi all, I wanted to introduce myself and ask for advice.  I am building an N scale door layout with code 55 Atlas track.  Found this online and modified it some.  This is my second layout, the first being over 30 years ago!  Life happened and this hobby had to be placed on the back burner with only lovely thoughts about my next one.  Well it is time!  I like to watch the trains run, more so than point to point or switching operations, hence the dual track, two train design.  I will be going DCC, because maybe there will be a bigger/expanded layout in the future.  The construction is hollow door, 36x80, with 1" foam board, (don't know if that is enough for the river?).  Early 1910, 20's steam.  Manual switch throws.  Please look at my attached layout and let me know what you think, any changes, tips, spacing, etc.  Thank you.

Frank

[Mike from CT]

Given the space available and the shorter wheelbase equipment (and trains) of the time you're modelling, actually it looks like a nice design.  My only concern would be reaching any derailment along the back (or the switch machine under the bridge if that's going to be hand-thrown).  Hopefully, you'll leave enough aisle space at the top to reach any derailments back there.

(And, yes, 1" foam is sufficient to cut for a stream, as long as it runs close to it's bank.  YOU can cut right down to the door base, paint it to represent the stream bottom and pour clear resin and still have a realistic looking stream.)

[Tom Springer]

Frank,

Single direction of travel only, means with the industry as laid out, you have to run counter-clockwise (in order to service the pickle packing and warehouse industries), which then means you have head-in/back out for your engine service.  Does this work for you?  Do you have a train when you head in for service?  Do you have a place to park cars?  If you are just running trains round-and-round, maybe this doesn't matter.

Try this via Trainplayer and see if it's working as you'd like.

[FrankieDi]

Thank you for the advice.
1.   It will be portable, so I can walk around the entire layout.
2.   Unfortunately the space only allows the counter-clockwise run to the industries as well as a head-in engine house and the engines would drop off their loads before servicing.  I may be able to shrink the center mountain and add an additional spur for car storage next to the warehouse.  Other than that, there really is no room for any additional options.
3.   I have tried this via Trainplayer, (fun!).  It was a little challenging, but, it would be mainly running the trains, rather than shunting cars around.
4.   The grades would be between 2.5 and 3, but I do not believe that would be an issue considering the limited amount of cars being pulled.  (Thoughts?).
Any other suggestions or tips?

Frank

[Tom Springer]

Frank, if it works for you then nothing else matters.  The one thing Trainplayer can't do for you is tell you if the radii on the curves is large enough for your equipment.  Steam, even small steam units, might not navigate well on your 10in curves.  Small diesel might, but steam is probably a problem, depending on coupler types - body-mount might work, but truck-mounted probably would derail.  I'm not a steam guy, so this is based on what I've read and heard.  I would check the NMRA standards and practices for good information.  Also if you are running long passenger cars, the problem grows with their lengths (and coupler mounting), and backing up might add to the problem.

You might also find information on the Model Railroad Hobbyist website (http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/); that magazine is digital-only and free.

[Mike from CT]

Tom,

Given the period Frankie's modelling, the tight curves shouldn't be a problem.  The NMRA recommends 8.75" minimum radius for short base steam locomotives of the period.  Similarly, there are a couple of steep grades I wouldn't attempt with 50-car unit freights that should be fine on 5-6 car freights.

[FrankieDi]

Alright guys, I took your observations and re-worked my design, see attached.  My main line now has 16.26min radius, and the inside and sidings are all 12.5min.  I also smoothed out many sections and added a small storage spur.  I do have a question for anyone who has used Woodlandscenics Incline/Decline Sets.  I see they come in 2, 3 and 4% grades.  Is there a way to add an additional ½ inch?  My grades are about 2.5+, but to keep it simple, if I cannot use the incline sets with the extra ½ grade, I will make them all 3%.  Thank you all for your advice and comments.

Frankie.

[Tom Springer]

I'm not a fan of the WS risers/inclines; at 2.5in wide, they are too wide for my use (N-scale); if you attempt to cut them "down the middle", all you get is small foam pieces.  Their other foam products, roadbeds, etc. I like and have used.  Just not risers/inclines because of their width.  If you want to see how they'd look on your layout, set the TRACE wide to 2.5in and see how they would be under your track.

[FrankieDi]

Thank you for the WS risers/inclines advice.  I will look into it.

Frankie

[TrainzLuvr]

If you are not afraid of a bit of calculations, you can make your own risers at any grade by using XPS (pink or blue) foam. It comes in a wide variety of thicknesses: 0.5" - 4" and panel sizes up to 4x8'.

Cut the kerfs into it first, depending how much you need to curve your riser, if at all, then rip it to the desired height and all done.

[mrsax2000]

What are the 2 switches at the top for?  Will you have staging that connects to these?

You might want to think about swaping the outside and middle track and have the outside track grade up the top of the layout to meet the bridge/overpass.

The outside track along the right could then curve back go under the bridge with the middle track.

My comments may not make sense.  Check the image for idea about the track.

But what previous person said, if it works for you, that's all that's important.

If you brought the river further to the right and point the road under the tracks back towards the middle, you could have the road cross the bridge, then cross the tracks on the "island", and the tracks could cross the river a bit to the right.  Might make for some fun scenery.


I think having the middle track go up may create a "wall". 

[FrankieDi]

Alright, after several drawbacks I finally managed to get a nice small plan, that fits my "allocated" space requirements, (63"x29" and no longer on a door).  Because of the space, there are no grades, but the river will be about 2" below track level.  As I stated previously I, (and family), like to watch the trains run, thus the reason for the basic double track.  It will be based on steam era, (mostly early, but a larger engine might make its way through the outer line countryside  ).  Any glaring issues I may have missed or thoughts?  Thank you.

Frankie

[Tom Springer]

Frankie,

Steam means engines with tenders?  Or just short 'shay' types?

The plan works running counter-clockwise.  Does backing in to your engine service area work for you?  If there is a tender on the engine, where is it when you back in?  And into the engine house?

If you know what engines you will be running, or their class, where on the engine(s) would you be filling the water and sand?  Does that impact where those structures are placed, or might there be small movements needed to get the engines in the proper places?  I presume your Sand House/Bin is the Walthers 933-3812 kit; the house can be on either side of the bin, they are not constructed attached. May have some flexibility there.

How does the sand delivery to the sand bin occur?  Same for coal in, ashes out?  Enough room for both an engine and car?  With a tender?  Or is this too much to worry about.

AnyRail will allow you to mark a section of track as a 'bridge'; might make a nice way to augment those purple bridges; select the track and choose the 'bridge' option in the track tab.

The N Scale Architect website has a very good schematic ("floor plan") for the Sheffield structure, in case you haven't found it yet; it's pretty much a 1:1 plan for N scale; I've used similar plans to take measurements from for my AnyRail structures.

Similarly, Walthers has a 'footprint' for the Sunrise structure; might check yours against theirs, length seems to be different.  There is a Sunrise item in the Walthers library in the User Objects (it's in red); it's a bit different from your drawing as to where the loading dock is positioned, maybe having an impact on where the engine stop when servicing the facility.


Looks like a plan your family will enjoy watching.

[FrankieDi]

Tom, thank you for your observations,

Yes, steam engines with tenders.

I am planning to back them into the engine house, (small Mogul/American type engines).

Being a small single engine line, I figured the straight service track into the house would work.

Yes, the Sand House/Bin is the Walthers 933-3813 kit and I will have the sand tower on the opposite side of the track of the Dhouse and the bin on the left side of the Dhouse.

The coal (a small bin and crane set) and sand deliveries would be "manual" with crane to unload the delivery car.  The ash is a manual pit with a ramp for workers to shovel into truck\bins\etc.

I will be using long flex tracks with middle ties removed and attached to the trestle bridge deck to make the bridges.  To mark the "Bridge" sections, I would have to cut the flex track at those points for AnyRail to correctly mark them, and I did not want to mess up the track materials list.

I forgot to look for the Sunrise structure.  I have replaced it and changed the road to match the loading dock.

Once again, thank you for your feedback, and keep them coming.

Frankie

[Tom Springer]

Frankie,

This is my now-standard recommendation ... take your layout over to TrainPlayer and try it as you think it should be operated.  See if the visual results are as you want them.  I get surprised all the time.

Attached is an image from TrainPlayer that has a train consisting of a Mogul+tender, 4-bay hopper and caboose, to give you an idea of what you might see in TrainPlayer.  There is also an image of the train's side view so you can see the cars.

Confessing my ulterior motive here ... showing that caboose.  If you're running steam, you'll have a caboose, right?  Every train in that era had one.

So what do you do with the caboose when in the service area?