My New railway

[Blue Pullman]

Hi all
Having spent the weekend on this I'm quite happy with it but of course now I am to close and cant see the errors, can anyone see any obvious problems??

The plans have been tried out in part and lots of sketches to get to this far.  inherited some baseboards which only fit an a certain way, i din't want any counter tops or crawling.

This layout will be dcc and i am prepared for two return loops - can I afford more!!

Look forward to your comments

[Tom Springer]

Blue Pullman, welcome to the forum.

How far can you reach in front of you when standing? Can you reach every track element?  Wherever you can't, that's where derailments will occur according to Mr. Murphy.

Generally you seem to have avoided S-curves, but the "stub" turnouts (ST240/1 parts) for crossovers have them and unless you run very slowly through them, they might be a problem.  Could you use the SL-88/89 turnouts, as that might allow a 2 inch or so straight between them on crossovers, and help reduce the S-curve condition?

And there are other S-curves not involving turnouts; see grid squares 6-7 over from the left, 1-2 down, and grid square 13, 4 down, the track closest to the turntable area.  Are these ok with you?

Seeing the platforms, I'm guessing you have passenger ops and appropriate cars; what is the wheelbase length for your equipment, and what curvature does your equipment need for appropriate operation at normal speed?

You have the reversing track at grid squares 10, 2-3; is that going to be a problem for a DCC reversing unit; that is, is there sufficient length where the track holding a complete train can actually electrically reverse?  Is all of the track common wired, or will you have blocks/districts separate from each other?  I.e only 1 train or multiple ones running?  If that reversing track area won't work, might one at grid 15,6 work?  Between the 3rd and 4th tracks from the left. The turntable itself is a reversing section, so a second one nearby might be workable.

When you get all the tracks in place and connected, I'd be curious what running your layout via TrainPlayer might show.

Let us know your progress.  Looks to be an interesting effort.

[Blue Pullman]

Hi Tom
Thanks very much for looking at my plan its really helpful. Let me give you some details
I bought a railway 10 x 4 with track made up of a 6 x 4 and two 2 x 4's screwed to the end, because of shelving in my railway room in situ  relaid it as you can see, I have run trains on the 6 x 4 for around 9 months now and am good with the reaching over - 6'2" and long arms, you'll note the space either side of the station building is for the hand of god to rest on!  At my local railway club Bob is at least a foot shorter than me and has a caravan step he uses which I may invest in.  What I hadn't considered was the 4' depth at the turntable end so i'm thinking of removing some buildings to allow for another hand of god to rest if needs be and have better access for track cleaning and derailments.
The area with the turntable in the middle will be a slow'ish speed area but we are talking 2nd and 3rd radius curves anyway. My days of train racing are gone and I like a considered pace so less issues. The area is made up of two facing bookshelves and the grey blobs not to scale are the uprights.  The space in the middle is filled in with a plywood topped frame.  The whole of the adjacent terminus station board isn't built yet.............
Because I have used some flexi track i can see i can change the peco settrack points to larger ones as you suggest.  I tried using one as the entrance to the turntable but got messed up with the next rail in as a half curve couldn't work out which one to use.  I can make other adjustments at the time by shortening flexi track and inserting longer points. 
My plan with dcc is to have a master cable running round under the inner and outer tracks with feeds upwards, this then should allow a train on the up and down and one on the branch with some shunting etc in the stations.  Forgive me but I can't see the reversing loop?  I have thought of changing the lay out of the access to the long terminus station so it could only be one way in not the two as at present may be this might help?
On my main 6 x 4 board i could take out the 'S' of fixed curves and replace them with flexi track starting the curves off earlier.
Despite this to me being quite a large layout area I have been unable to fit a fiddle yard or storage sidings but by having multiple platforms am able to keep a reasonable number of locos and carriages on board on view.
I just put the platforms as indicators mainly i'll be using Triang / Hornby Mk1's ,Blue Pullmans and DMU's. I also have some old Graham Farish slam door coaches to put behind modest Class 3/4 F locos and single car class 122 and 128 style units there will be a token goods yard and train being unloaded.
Thanks again for your response look forward to hearing from you
Roger

[Tom Springer]

Roger,

To see the "reverse loop" situation (where the polarity of the track changes and creates an electrical short), I've attached a marked up version of your layout.

The 'light blue' straight piece is the track causing the problem.

To see the situation, start where I placed the letter A and follow the path, starting at the straight leg of that turnout, left from the A, along the green color section.  Focus on the lower rail - think of it as the 'positive' rail for this effort, and the green top rail is 'negative'; move along the green section, to the letter B marking the track now changing to the color pink - the lower green rail you were following now becomes the top rail of the pink section.  Follow the top rail of the pink section to the point marked C, which is the turnout colored purple.

The polarity of the pink section top rail (we called it 'positive') is the same as the polarity of the purple section's top rail.  Follow the purple section top rail to the point marked with the X.  The top rail of this turnout, including the top rail for the diverging (curved) leg continues as the 'positive' rail.  This then makes the top rail of the light blue straight track piece, where the purple turnout X curved path connects, also 'positive'.  And that rail connects to the top rail of the 'green' turnout at A - but that is 'negative'.  Hence an electrical polarity change occurs (or a short circuit if you want).

Any change of electrical direction is a "reversing section".  DCC would have appropriate track connections "isolated" and some form of an electrical reverser used (Digitrax AR-1 or PM42, or a PSX-AR for NCE or something equivalent).

Proper reversing sections have to contain the full train within the trackage that is going to have it's polarity flipped (changed), or short circuits occur.

In the SHOW tab, there is a check-box for "Reverse loops" that you can enable; AnyRail will show you what it thinks should be this "reversing" section; use it to see what AR thinks is the track, but use your own judgement as to where polarity has to be reversed, considering the length of your trains that will run through this section.

Reversing sections are nice because they allow you to run trains in different directions, but they take time to understand, and have a learning curve to creating them properly.  The web is full of material that will help you learn everything you will need.  A Google search for "DCC auto reverse circuit diagram" is a good place to start.

[Blue Pullman]

Hi Tom
Well thanks for all that info, I have read about reverse curve issues in Brian Lamberts excellent book but this was for real.  I have got a Digitrax reverse loop module but want to keep that for the turntable.  I just knew it was that piece of track but couldn't have said why before - your talk through really helped.  Its fine looking at a technical diagram and something else seeing it as part of a layout. There was another short at the crossover in the station too.
I decided to get rid of both and do some more tidying, 1st  I realised I wouldn't be able to access my work table Id got carried away with 3 platforms so now its two lines  the yellow is the table . To compensate I followed your advice and moved the crossovers to the right for the main lines and then made a cross over to the main station so a shuttle using rail cars or DMU's can operate independently of the mainline and got back my third platform. I've put 3 hands of god positions and checked them out that they work for derailments and track cleaning.  That's it for now I think - how do you think it's looking as a viable layout ?  I have largely got rid of the s bends although my new branch line station access is one big one but this will have maximum two car DMU's on it and of course I can have lots of flange squeal and slow running.
Best wishes
Roger
PS your time scale to mines intriguing my guess is Australia or the US, I think the former as your English is not Americanised?

[Blue Pullman]

Always a good idea to put in the plan!!

[Tom Springer]

Roger,

Re the Digitrax reverser, is it AR-1 or PM42? PM42 is significantly better and offers many more options and possibilities.

First suggestion on the new plan: make all of it a single AnyRail Section and set the color to white; you'll be able to see the AR red lines in the curves where the minimum radius is not being met.

Second, with your expanding use of flex track, consider replacing those fixed-length straight track pieces with flex track; fewer connections, maybe, and more flexibility on total track length

Third, check track separations where ends meet adjacent track; do you want some of them as close as they are.  Flex track will help when it comes to lengths and the need to trim.

Separately, something that I would say to anyone building an AR layout.  Using items from the User Object libraries is a caveat emptor situation.  Just because an item is in a library doesn't mean it's available.  One needs to be sure they can actually get it.  For me, if it's not currently available in the Walters catalogue/web site or the manufacturer's web site, then will it be available when it is needed.  If it's "limited availability", or only on Ebay, then I think one should get it asap to be sure they will actually have it.  Plus the advantage of having it early is that one can see if it's measurements are correct in the User Object.  I looked at your Bachmann NER 2 Road Engine Shed in particular, to see if it was single or double track, and had trouble finding it as part 44-027Z on the Walthers web site and on the web.

Finally (for now), for the future, it would be helpful to have a simple overview of what your road is about, including era, type of work, free-lance or prototype-inspired, nature of equipment you want to run, even the location where it will be based on, etc.  For the passenger train(s), are they commuter or long-distance (equipment choices), what locations are you modeling, etc.

Not sure what else I should comment on, so let us know what you'd like to get info on.

It's winter here in Phoenix, meaning no baseball for 6 more weeks; I have time on my hands until mid-Feb when spring training begins and my attention shifts; 15 teams in 10 ballparks, all within 45 mins max travel time from each other means life gets great for 4 weeks; I can get a game each day, 2 games on some days. 90F degrees every day and a small part of heaven.

Looking forward to your progress.

[Blue Pullman]

Hi Tom
Thanks for your reply, I have to admit to not knowing where Phoenix was so I googled it I note it was founded in 1867.  When I look out of my bedroom window in a morning it's through a 1750 window and I'm looking at 1630 houses we've still only got less than 10,000 people here not like Phoenix. My railway room has old exposed timbers in the walls it's on the 2nd floor and the stairs are at a very odd angle. We have ground, 1st, 2nd floors we are built on a hill so I can stand in our kitchen look across the hall in to our utility cellar where the end of it is under my car parked outside.
I told a lie with my reverser went and found it out and it's a Lenz LK200 what do you reckon to that?
I've been a bit lazy with track and used flexi track as a workaround – what I was really after with this exercise was would the overall plan work.  I've changed the track to white, I knew I had an issue top left where I swopped from Hornby curves to flexi but I can fix that on the day, thanks to you I got rid of the 's' bends.
A bit of history will explain my track, 30 years ago I had a 24' long 3 track loft layout (me & my 2 sons) all got packed away on divorce and moved from loft to loft in boxes.  I retired a year ago and got it all out cleaned & tested it etc. still an ongoing job, In March at an auction I bought the populated boards I mentioned earlier with 20 odd Hornby points etc.  I played about and then decided I wanted PECO medium or express points for mainlines and bought loads of stock whenever I saw them at a good price, many are electrofrog.  Being on such a crowded small island I am for example able to visit 5 toy fair swap meets within 30-40 minutes' drive this month alone.  Oh Boy have I bought stock!!  Additionally I was able to buy at 10% of real value loads of items from the family of a deceased club member; I therefore think it's fair to say I have all the stock of rails except the single slip and 5 turntable transition tracks.  In fact I have too much track although I accept I'm unlikely to use a Lima point.  The buildings are virtually all examples of similar style size items I have there are boxes of them and again I probably have too many.  My new wife doesn't particularly like model railways but loves to keep me happy and is supportive of my purchases!  We've recently bought a retirement house near the coast and I have my own railway room at present being 10' x 10' but she wants it for a spare bedroom so I'm having a loft conversion in the spring.  As a temporary event I've built a series of 4' x 2' baseboards which go right round the room. That has 4 tracks round lets me run some trains keeps me happy for now – another track planning session ahead for the new room.
I went to family and school on steam trains, google 'Cheshire Lines'. I went on a class 101 DMU the day it entered service so mainly my era is 5 and 6. Because Triang railways in my teens didn't do sound etc I preferred diesels I'm modelling my nostalgia but that said I have an early HST in swallow livery.  I prefer locos in green or maroon and dmu's in green.  I have around 50 locos 10 are steam say 10 single car or multiple DMU', 10 ish Blue Pullmans though some are grey and the rest class 40, 42,52,37,31,08,47,45 and 55.  Coaches are mainly maroon or GW region with only about 10 goods trucks.
As my club has a dcc run by a ROCO Z21 I was quickly sold on the concept and this railway is to be dcc.  I bought the Black version and love it.  My other railway will for the time being run on my old H&M Duette's etc I've say 10 dcc sound and 5 basic decoders all fitted myself and in the old locos hard wired from the start and three just plugged in. 
Anyway all for today look forward to your thoughts on the Lenz and comments on my progress.
Regards Roger

[Tom Springer]

Roger,

I'm a Diditrax guy, don't know much about the Lenz reverser, other than it's similar to the AR-1.  Only handles 1 reverse loop situation, I believe.  I like the PM42 because it handles 4 different zones, and can do both reversing and block support.

Sounds like you are well on your way to construction.  Put a purpose behind your road and you should be able to work out all the remaining issues, knowing what you want for operations.  Basing just on track and things you already have might limit you and not realize what you want; having a operations plan in mind might let you see more of the overall railroad.  And if you are giving up a room for a loft, I'm sure your wife will understand when you have to have a few more things to make the "new configuration for the new area" work ...     Every railroad has a purpose and models should, too.

[mrsax2000]

Some of the curves in the flex may be too tight. Look for a different color at the curves. If you see a change from the blue, then AR is telling you to smooth out the curves.

When you get 1 curve set right, just copy and paste to replace its neighbor. Then make small adjustments as needed.  It looks like you have room to broaden those S-curves.  You trains will run smoother.

There appears to be a lot of little pieces next to each other.  If you are using flex, replace those with a single flex piece.

Last, download TrainPlayer and run it in demo (free) mode.  Export from AR and import into TrainPlayer.  Then build and run a train to see if it works for you.  I found exporting while at a view scale of 1:8 provides a good graphic background for TrainPlayer.

[Blue Pullman]

Hi Tom
I went to a swap meet and bought the Lenz for £3 the seller had no idea what it was (and a CDU for £1), it was a chance but came home wired it up and it works, not bad for solid state too no relays to burn out.
In terms of where am I going etc  I wanted a round and round not an end to end, I can't handle more than 3 active trains so two circuiting in opposite directions going from terminus to terminus makes me happy with some shunting whilst it all happens, the era is what I have aimed for but with exceptions for what I like.  The buildings I can't use all of them but a nice olde world teashopy type is what I like actually now I've set them all out in rows to look at some are for the waste bin.  I have to say I have used the turntable because I had it but it fits well and I needed a loco yard anyway.
I've revamped the track to smooth out issues and decided to move the crossover points so I could drop the whole top section down to allow for my village street. Middle England middle century
Roger

[Blue Pullman]

Forgot the plan again

[Blue Pullman]

Hi Mr Sax

Thanks for looking and your comments, I have adjusted my s's and got rid of the red bits and moved a few bits about to recover a planned road at the top left.  see plan just posted. The curves are 2nd and 3rd radius curves exactly the same as on the far top left however the very inner set are 1st radius but the stock going on here is approx 40 years old when Triang built stuff for train set tight curves.  I have the odd new loco such as a Bachmann 4 F but it has no problem being an 0-6-0. My oldest DMU now running dcc was made in 1958 amazing what a really good strip down and service with some replacement axles and wheels can do.  I know you can buy the latest thing with beautiful workmanship but I'm modelling my nostalgia and trains I wanted as a child some of this modern stuff is also a bit too delicate for me.  I was a bit lazy with the track and used little connectors when I could have used more flexi.  Train player sounds interesting i'll give it a go.
Thanks for your input
Roger

[Tom Springer]

Roger,

Sounds like you have it under control.  Just wonder if the ends of some of the straight tracks around the platforms come too close to the curved sections.

Enjoyed your progress.  Have fun building it.

[Tom Springer]

Roger,

One more thing ... about your turntable.

I'm not familiar with the Hornby products, not seeing them used in the US, so that turntable is new to me.  I noticed on the right side that there are no track connections, so I looked the turntable up on the web and Hornby shows a track turning mechanism at that position, much like the early Walters turntable had.  If that's part of the turntable (hence no connections there), you might want to include that structure, since the AR part doesn't.

One thing about turntables is that the prototypes generally have 'overrun' short tracks on the opposite side from actual tracks leading onto the turntable (180 degrees position), generally to handle overruns when engines go too far when entering onto the table. ... or when people like me accidentally don't stop them in time.  Those Hornby transition tracks might work for that ... and make the turntable setup a little more prototypical looking.

The position of that track off the turntable to the engine shed is the 180 degree position for the turntable lead from the main track,  If possible, you might re-orient that shed and use that 180 degree position for your fueling track.  It might be a little more prototypical looking to have an engine leaving the fueling track go straight across the turntable out onto the main track without having to rotate the turntable, and more likely that inbound engines would go to the fueling track than the engine shed.