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Topic: Tuxedo Junction Layout  (Read 1139 times)

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Offline Grontfoodle

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Tuxedo Junction Layout
« on: September 23, 2018, 03:08:58 pm »
Hello There,
I'm posting this attachment of my AnyRail design for a folded dogbone layout. This layout will be in HO scale and will be called "Tuxedo Junction". Rather than build a layout based on a particular time and location I want to build a layout that helps to tell the story of music and trains. Much of the music associated with trains will be either blues or country, but it an association that has been around for over a hundred years. I liked the idea of the folded dogbone because it provides for easy reverse loops for direction change - thus adding to the visual interest of the layout. There won't be lots of switching going on, just a couple of sidings to provide destinations for some of the trains (others will be just passing through).
I'd appreciate comments on my design!
Cheers,
Lindsay

Offline Tom Springer

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Re: Tuxedo Junction Layout
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2018, 05:53:16 pm »
Lindsay,

Is this a conceptual plan or one you almost have finalized?

First thing you should do is use the Show tab and turn off the Sections option to remove the section coloring, and see the places where AnyRail puts a red line in the curved track to indicate that the minimum curvature you have set is not being met - the curves are below that minimum value of 360mm.  Also check all the grades - the ones in red are above your maximum grades allowed.

What is the minimum clearance between over-crossing track that you will actually need and what you have?  You might want to set that using the Settings tab so AnyRail can check that for you. Keep in mind that AnyRail's shown height for the track that crosses over another track (think of it as from top of rail on lower track to top of rail on upper track) needs to have the thickness of whatever board you have that upper track resting on and the thickness of whatever roadbed that track uses factored into that height value - so subtract those values from the AR height reported to make sure you have clearance for your tallest car to run underneath on the lower track.
The 2 ST240 turnouts at the lower left on the layout form a pretty bad "S curve", and the top turnout entering from the left is off a curve, so the diverging leg forms another S curve from that curved track entering the turnout.  You might want to rework this area and try different turnouts with less curvature.  If not possible, consider putting a short straight track to the left of the top turnout and a similar track between the 2 turnouts to try and handle these S curves.  In any case, a very slow speed through these curves would probably be needed to avoid derailments.  The twisting of the couplers these curves can cause may  be part of the problems leading to derailments.
Are the manual switches really manually operated by using a throwbar? Where are those throwbars positioned and do you have clearance for them?  And are the turnouts isolated electrically so that a "reversing loop" short-circuit won't actually occur when thrown?  My guess is that manually thrown turnouts probably means DC and not DCC will be used.  So the reverse loop has to carefully designed/handled.

Looking forward to your progress on the layout.  Running it should keep you busy.

Offline mrsax2000

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Re: Tuxedo Junction Layout
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2018, 07:05:53 pm »
General plan is good.
Some details that need to be fixed before you start building.

Bottom left curves are very tight.
By moving the switches and smoothing the curves, it will work better (see image).

You have a reverse loop, the hidden double track.  This requires special DC wiring or a DCC auto-reverse module. Otherwise you'll have a short, or you switch to Marklin with the embedded 3rd rail. :)

Main concern is the length of run on yellow track from left switch to bridge.
This could be have a very steep slope (incline).
Set the bridge height at 2.5-3" (what ever you need for clearance of tallest cars and roadbed).
The lower track should be 0.
Set the switch height to 0.
Then smooth the slope between the switch and bridge.
Check what Anyrail tells you the slope is.
3% is ok for short distance and short trains on a smaller layout.
If you can get slope down to 2.5%, much better.
Steep inclines look great for cog trains. Not so much for mainline roads.

Offline mrsax2000

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Re: Tuxedo Junction Layout
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2018, 07:07:00 pm »
Also consider using some curved turnouts.  Peco has some beauties.

Offline Grontfoodle

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Re: Tuxedo Junction Layout
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2018, 02:26:43 pm »
Lindsay,

Is this a conceptual plan or one you almost have finalized?

First thing you should do is use the Show tab and turn off the Sections option to remove the section coloring, and see the places where AnyRail puts a red line in the curved track to indicate that the minimum curvature you have set is not being met - the curves are below that minimum value of 360mm.  Also check all the grades - the ones in red are above your maximum grades allowed.

What is the minimum clearance between over-crossing track that you will actually need and what you have?  You might want to set that using the Settings tab so AnyRail can check that for you. Keep in mind that AnyRail's shown height for the track that crosses over another track (think of it as from top of rail on lower track to top of rail on upper track) needs to have the thickness of whatever board you have that upper track resting on and the thickness of whatever roadbed that track uses factored into that height value - so subtract those values from the AR height reported to make sure you have clearance for your tallest car to run underneath on the lower track.
The 2 ST240 turnouts at the lower left on the layout form a pretty bad "S curve", and the top turnout entering from the left is off a curve, so the diverging leg forms another S curve from that curved track entering the turnout.  You might want to rework this area and try different turnouts with less curvature.  If not possible, consider putting a short straight track to the left of the top turnout and a similar track between the 2 turnouts to try and handle these S curves.  In any case, a very slow speed through these curves would probably be needed to avoid derailments.  The twisting of the couplers these curves can cause may  be part of the problems leading to derailments.
Are the manual switches really manually operated by using a throwbar? Where are those throwbars positioned and do you have clearance for them?  And are the turnouts isolated electrically so that a "reversing loop" short-circuit won't actually occur when thrown?  My guess is that manually thrown turnouts probably means DC and not DCC will be used.  So the reverse loop has to carefully designed/handled.

Looking forward to your progress on the layout.  Running it should keep you busy.
Hi Tom - thanks so much for the evaluation! The baseboard is 3600 x 1500mm. The layout will be DCC. I've moved the two sets of points a bit to allow for larger radius curves, and adjusted the slope height from 75mm to 80mm. Slope % seem to be about 2.2% at the steepest. I've got to figure out the wiring for the two reverse loops - that's the next stage!

Offline Grontfoodle

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Re: Tuxedo Junction Layout
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2018, 02:31:12 pm »
General plan is good.
Some details that need to be fixed before you start building.

Bottom left curves are very tight.
By moving the switches and smoothing the curves, it will work better (see image).

You have a reverse loop, the hidden double track.  This requires special DC wiring or a DCC auto-reverse module. Otherwise you'll have a short, or you switch to Marklin with the embedded 3rd rail. :)

Main concern is the length of run on yellow track from left switch to bridge.
This could be have a very steep slope (incline).
Set the bridge height at 2.5-3" (what ever you need for clearance of tallest cars and roadbed).
The lower track should be 0.
Set the switch height to 0.
Then smooth the slope between the switch and bridge.
Check what Anyrail tells you the slope is.
3% is ok for short distance and short trains on a smaller layout.
If you can get slope down to 2.5%, much better.
Steep inclines look great for cog trains. Not so much for mainline roads.
HI! Thanks for the post! I've smoothed the slope out - now down to 2.2% I've moved the two sets of switches to get larger radius curves. The layout will be DCC so I'll need a reversing module or two (there are two reverse loops).

Offline Tom Springer

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Re: Tuxedo Junction Layout
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2018, 08:08:25 pm »
Lindsay,

With DCC and reversing devices, determining the length of your longest train and make that reversing section as a long track segment without any turnouts would be a good place to start on determining the reversing track(s) needed.  Do you know what equipment you want to run?  If you do, you can use Trainplayer to help you with the reversing track effort.  You don't have to find an exact match for the equipment in TP, as you can change the length of each car you use to be the "correct" length when you put it on the layout. Just keep in mind to "add" in the length of couplers that your cars will have when deciding on the car length(s) you want to set for TP, so you get the true train lengths.

For DCC, have you thought about where the wiring blocks will be?  That might also impact your reversing sections, since they are separate wiring blocks. DCC reversers operate by generating very brief short circuits, so wiring block considerations are important.  Similar considerations about metal versus plastic wheels on the cars, as trains travel between wiring blocks; short circuits can occur more than we like or sometimes predict, a some of us have learned the hard way.

You prefer the "Insulfrog" Peco turnouts, so you know how to wire the, I presume.  The "keep alive" products may be a consideration.

Looking forward to seeing your progress.