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My first layout - comments welcomed

Started by Rishtoniter, February 14, 2020, 01:15:22 PM

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Rishtoniter

First I've got to say how impressed I am with the software. I've spent quite a bit of time with the software planning a layout and I'm sure it will have avoided me making errors on the phgysical layout (in paricular, radii and inclines).

N gauge, 6ft x 3ft. Minimum radius 10 inches, maximum incline 2.7%, minimum height clearance 36mm.

I realise that's not ideal.

There are 3 3ftx2ft baseboards. Ive marked the based boards A1-A6 / B1-B6 / C1-C6

The "north" station track has an incline of 0.7%.
I'm building the platforms, station building, signal boxes, bridges and tunnels first in case I need to make small adjustments to the track position.

Will any comments maybe you could refer to which "square", e.g. A3 (where there is an upper level and lower level track).

Many thanks in advance


Tom Springer

Please take your layout over to TrainPlayer, create some trains that mimic what you will run, and see how they clear platforms, turnouts, etc.

Then once you know what the trains will look like (engine/car types, configurations if possible), please share that info as it would help to make other evaluations.

Looks like one direction running only - no reverse loops.  So which way?

Clockwise, how do you handle the diesel depot at B2?  Engine heads into that depot?  Where'd you leave the attached train?

Counterclockwise, how would you service the yard at B4-C3?  Where would the engine(s) be positioned?

Maybe consider putting the engine depot and the yard together?
Tom Springer

(Unintentional Pyromaniac)

Rishtoniter

Thanks for the comments.
I wasn't aware of TrainPlayer. I'll investigate that.
One main direction - clockwise, but shunting into/out of sidings obviously in both directions.
Depot at B2. Good point.
Maybe I should just have some sidings at B2 and put the engine shed at C3?

Rishtoniter

I've had a quick look at TrainPlayer. I see that you can import AnyRail track layouts but it would cost me $99. I need to consider whether I want to spend that.

In the meantime I need to construct platforms, buildings, tunnel entrances and bridges, or at least get accurate measurements of them, so I can check clearances.

Revised layout attached with engine shed at C3

Tom Springer

You can use the free TrainPlayer version for what you need. The $99 for TrainPlayer is to get all the advanced features and car collections.  The free version should have the engines/cars that you need.

Please describe the train configurations you are planning to use; without that, it is hard to make comments.

Are you using the structures from User Objects?  Can you identify which structures you want, by Manufacturer and part #?  Or are you building your own?

In terms of placement of items near tracks, what are you using for roadbed?  Standard European width?  If so, turn on the Roadbed option via the SHOW tab so you can see where things lie.
Tom Springer

(Unintentional Pyromaniac)

Rishtoniter

Thanks. I've still got a lot to learn  ::) but it will be time well spent with software, rather than laying track and then finding things that don't work.

At this point I'm not too concerned if there is a mix of locos and rolling stock of different eras. I will consider that later.

I've now discovered I can export from AnyRail and import the layout into TrainPlayer.

I'm planning a small dmu and a class 55 deltic and a class 08 diesel shunter for goods.

Some of the structures I would like are not currently in User Objects so I need to buy/build those (and add them to User Objects).

Standard UK. I've had Roadbed turned on to show clearances to platforms and edge of baseboard and they fit.

I need to reconsider the sidings at B1/B2. Maybe they should be in area A2?
Revised plan attached.

Many thanks for your constructive comments. Much appreciated.

Tom Springer

Your latest version seems to work a lot better.  Only thing I fear is that going around and around will eventually get boring. Since this is your first layout, if you want to build it, my suggestion is skipping doing any scenery, get it to work in it's basic format, run it for awhile and see if you like it, or get bored with it.  Almost everyone's first layout quickly gets into the 'boring over a short time' category.  Unless, of course, constructing layouts is more important than operating them; some folks like that aspect, so that works for some.

In TrainPlayer, I used a 'class 55 deltic br blue' from the '50 px Collections->UK->UK diesel electrics' collection, put it on the track against your stations, and it looks like takes up almost 1/3 of the station platform length; if that is the correct length for that engine (TrainPlayer shows the prototype is 21.2 meters), how many passenger cars will then fit at the stations?

Before you buy any structures, can you identify the Manufacturer/part#s that interest you and maybe we can find the dimensions without you having to spend money.  I tried a web search for British rail stations, but didn't come up with much.

I'll be glad to help more if I can, but starting next week I'll be away from everything for a month or so.  Otherwise, I'll leave it to the others on the forum who know a lot more about British rail than I ever will.
Tom Springer

(Unintentional Pyromaniac)

Rishtoniter

I really appreciate your comments.

I understand your comments about round and round, but I thought there could be a 2 car DMU going round plus deltic/shunter moving goods around sidings. I wasn't thinking of the deltic pulling carriages.

I wasn't planning to do any scenery work until the tracks/turnouts/platforms etc. were working.

At my age (67) I'd like to build something that would keep me entertained for a good few years and I've looked at a lot of plans but never seen one that I really liked, so my design is my take on a plan in Railyway Modeller January 1984 which was OO and 12ft x 8ft which had a reversing loop. I don't have room for anything bigger than 6ft x 3ft (12ft x 6ft in OO) so I don't have space for a loop.

I've been to a few exhibtions. I don't think there would be enough interest for me in an end to end layout, or a "flat" layout. I realise there's quite a bit more work creating gradients with smooth vertical transitions, but I will relish that, so maybe I do fall into the category of constructing is more fun than operating?

Tom Springer

For a first layout, work out the height/slope numbers and then start building it.  Don't buy structures, make a footprint for each out of cardboard - save money - and then everything else as taped together cardboard as you need sides, roofs, etc.  Run your ops for awhile and learn from that. You'll probably then learn a lot more about what you like and don't in a model railroad.  And if you do like the structures and where they are, buy them later.

So let's say you've got your answers for now and are good to go.  Just keep us informed.

To me, the most important aspect for beginners is to get something done and running; that's the best 'learning curve'.
Tom Springer

(Unintentional Pyromaniac)

mrsax2000

There are some wiggles and a lot of small pieces. Try to use longer pieces where possible. You may need to reposition some switches, etc. Unitrack has it's own geometry and does a good job of lining itself up.

I attached an image of the some of the wiggles smoothed out which might be better than me typing another paragraph. :)[attach id=7589]

Rishtoniter

Quote from: Tom Springer on February 15, 2020, 02:30:52 AMFor a first layout, work out the height/slope numbers and then start building it.

[snip]

So let's say you've got your answers for now and are good to go.  Just keep us informed.

To me, the most important aspect for beginners is to get something done and running; that's the best 'learning curve'.

Good advice. I fiddled for quite a while with radii and gradients and they look ok in the software but I need to see how they work in practice.

I'll certainly report back, but it might be a while  ::)

Rishtoniter

Quote from: mrsax2000 on February 16, 2020, 09:57:17 AMThere are some wiggles and a lot of small pieces. Try to use longer pieces where possible. You may need to reposition some switches, etc. Unitrack has it's own geometry and does a good job of lining itself up.

I attached an image of the some of the wiggles smoothed out which might be better than me typing another paragraph. :)[attach id=7589]

I'm not sure what Unitrack is. I'll be using Peco code 55 streamline (N gauge)

The one thing the track layout doesn't show is the baseboard frame. I've positioned turnouts where they won't coincide with the frame. In hindsight, I've done that the wrong way round. The strengthening woodwork inside each 3ft x 2ft section should have been positioned AFTER designing the track layout.

My main problem is limited space. 6ft x 3ft. But it's my first layout and I'm bound to learn a lot building it then maybe build another better layout from the experience.

Currently I'm building electronics - solenoid control for turnouts, etc. They can be re-used if/when I build a different layout.

Tom Springer

Unitrack is from Kato.  It's geometry is fixed, sometimes this is then called "sectional" track, and it doesn't have flex track in it's offering.  It's similar to Peco's Setrack offerings, except that Unitrack comes with the roadbed attached.

One thing about turnout positioning regarding the baseboard and support frame underneath is to consider where the 'hole' for the turnout control - throwbar midpoint - is located, if you are using some turnout motor such as Tortoise to throw them.

Years ago I made a small line element (attached) for use with Peco turnouts:
Peco turnout throwbar marker.jpg

The smaller end is positioned exactly on the incoming end of the turnout, and the larger end then is exactly where the midpoint of the throwbar occurs; that's the hole the rod is then positioned through when installing a Tortoise-type motor.

Using this positioning marker, I could see if there was sufficient clearance for the Tortoise motors under my turnouts, or did I have to go to remote mounting and deal with the complexity of where the motors where placed.

Peco turnout throwbar marker.any
Tom Springer

(Unintentional Pyromaniac)

Rishtoniter

Quote from: Tom Springer on February 16, 2020, 06:36:01 PMUnitrack is from Kato.  It's geometry is fixed, sometimes this is then called "sectional" track, and it doesn't have flex track in it's offering.  It's similar to Peco's Setrack offerings, except that Unitrack comes with the roadbed attached.

One thing about turnout positioning regarding the baseboard and support frame underneath is to consider where the 'hole' for the turnout control - throwbar midpoint - is located, if you are using some turnout motor such as Tortoise to throw them.


Thanks. Because of the size of my layout I'm using Peco Streamline (flexible) track so I'm not restricted to fixed size radii like in Setrack.

I'm currently building the electronics to drive servos. I can then fit one to a spare piece of Sundeala baseboard to see how much clearance I need from the baseboard frame.

Thanks for the idea of the template.

I've attached a plan showing the baseboard frame positions and now (after making changes to the layout) I've realised at least 3 changes will be needed (arrowed on the middle baseboard) to the baseboard or turnout locations. This reinforces my point earlier that I should have planned the track layout *before* building the baseboards!