L Shaped N Scale Layout Help

[NuHeathen]

Good day everyone! I am returning to the hobby, after a 10+ year hiatus. I started with a scenic ridge layout (never again) on a door in my office, but due to a divorce all those years ago, and consequently losing most of my stuff, I am starting over. I have been given permission from the boss, to use our spare room for my layout, and have started throwing some stuff together with AnyRail6. I have the space for a 36"x89", and a 36"x72" L shaped layout, and I have modified the scenic ridge plan with better radii, and have used another door layout I found on the internet, and made it fit my dimensions, somewhat.

Here is where my hiccups start. As I was new to the hobby back then, I still know very little about it. I have not chosen any era, nor can I decide on what exactly I am going for, but I do like the industrial/coal/logging aspect, but I also like to watch trains run. This is why I have tried to "marry" these two plans together, unfinished, and more of a strating point. I was hoping that some of the veterans can chime in with some advice, which I know might be difficult given the fact that I cannot commit to anything inparticular.

As I stated, I am interested in the industrial/coal/logging, and watching trains run, I love steamies, especially the big boy, hence the minimum radii incorporated. I will have to buy new loco's and cars regardless, but I do still have my NCE Power Cab, with an SB3a Booster, a bunch of Peco code 80 electro frog turnouts were found, BNIB, this is why everything has been designed with Peco track on the layout. Anyways I am rambling now, please, if anyone has any thoughts on the current state, and can offer some advice, that would be greatly appreciated. I have also shared the AnyRail plan, such as it is to date.



ModifiedScenicRidge.any

[rlcross]

Hey NuHeathen.  Question, do you have access to the entire 90x120 space?  Reason I ask is perhaps you have more flexibility to achieve your objective of longer train runs, and getting some space to develop your coal and logging, if you adopt a 3 wall layout using a dog bone style.  The looping curves would only be used at the ends of the dog-bone allowing you room to have yards, a city and your resource industries in between.

I have generated an alternative using a dog-bone.  I put in some of your track, but didnt connect anything or develop any of the other points of interest.  It's really just to show the dog-bone layout.  The sides are 18 inches deep to keep the reach shorter.  Of course, doors, windows etc would all impact on which way you oriented it.   

Just a thought.  You're at the fun stage where you can let your imagination run.

Regards,

Richard

[NuHeathen]

Hello rlcross, and thank you very much! I really like what you have done here, unfortunately section "B" would be right across the door way. I also have a closet on the wall between section A and B, that we need to access for storage. The room itself is longer than 120", but I have stopped at 120" due to the door swing. The "benches" are set due to the fact that they are already there, they are not connected to each other though, but this is why I thought the L-Shape would work best for the space. Also, a possibility to put in a helix and go "up" at a way later date 

[NuHeathen]

Upon further consideration, I think what I will do is start a layout on one of the surfaces, and proceed from there, thus simplifying my first attempt at a layout. I came across a plan from MRR that has peeked my interest. I believe its general layout will lend itself to some nice industry, maybe a mine, or a logging area, and I can always add to it later. I am having some trouble trying to transfer it to my 36x89 space, as I am trying to maintain larger radii, I don't suppose anyone would be able to help me in that regard? I just started using AnyRail yesterday, so it is quite the learning curve, for an absolute beginner that is.

rj1000-a.pdf

[magnus]

Hello and welcome! There is a learning curve, but you'll be surprised how quickly you become productive. Most important is to know what you want to design, and a given track plan is a good start.

In the attached .any file I have inserted your track plan, put that in one layer (Back Image), and then started designing your track in a different layer (Track). Then I started to insert track over the track plan. I used Fleischmann N scale as an example, but of course you should use whatever you use. You can then keep modifying it as you see fit.

To just see your own track plan, you can turn off the Back Image layer by clicking the light bulb next to it; make sure the Track layer is selected as the active layer as you can never hide the active layer - just double click the Track layer.

I have used a few advanced features here (layers, free forms, images), and you will best learn those by using the software and read the manual once in a while. There is a lot of useful features like this that you will learn by having a need for them. And of course this forum is most helpful.

Good Luck!

[NuHeathen]

Hello and welcome! There is a learning curve, but you'll be surprised how quickly you become productive. Most important is to know what you want to design, and a given track plan is a good start.

In the attached .any file I have inserted your track plan, put that in one layer (Back Image), and then started designing your track in a different layer (Track). Then I started to insert track over the track plan. I used Fleischmann N scale as an example, but of course you should use whatever you use. You can then keep modifying it as you see fit.

To just see your own track plan, you can turn off the Back Image layer by clicking the light bulb next to it; make sure the Track layer is selected as the active layer as you can never hide the active layer - just double click the Track layer.

I have used a few advanced features here (layers, free forms, images), and you will best learn those by using the software and read the manual once in a while. There is a lot of useful features like this that you will learn by having a need for them. And of course this forum is most helpful.

Good Luck!

Thank you very much Magnus! I must apologize, as I apparently uploaded the wrong image. In any case, I took your instructions, and have imported the right image for myself, and have slowly started with "tracing" out the track plan that I would like to start with. It was created on a door 36x80, so I will stretch it out to work on my top that is 36x89, not to much difference. Trying to layout turnouts however, is a bit more of a challenge, I have read about issues with the smaller turnouts, so am trying to use the larger radii Peco turnouts, I am also using Peco code 80 track on the layout,  but I did not anticipate how hard it would be to maintain the proper radii!

I was also wondering if anyone could share their opinion on the layout, as far as the reversing loop is concerned? I am not sure if I should keep it, as I will be using the layout for industrial, and was concerned about how the electrical would work for that section of track. I have only started to drop down some track to check my minimum radii, and try the turnouts, this is in no way a track plan...yet!



Modified ErieRRatHerbton.any

[magnus]

I must apologize, as I apparently uploaded the wrong image.

Actually that might have been good, since now you know how to do it yourself.

You can modify the shape of flex track to fit perfectly the track plan. You have a few control points - end points and bend points. Play around with them. I was able to get a perfect match within seconds. Read the manual if it's not obvious.

Note that the flex track might take on different colors: red, orange, yellow. This is AnyRail warning you that you are violating your Minimum Radii rules. You can set the rules under Settings>Flex Track. Red is the first, Orange second and yellow third Minimum Radius.

Flex tracks in AnyRail has a lot of advanced features - read the manual.

I noticed that your tracks are all in the Background Image layer; you probably had that layer active when you created the tracks. it's easy to fix: just select the track, perhaps with multi select, and in the Tab above select the right layer in the Layer: field.

You are doing fast progress! Congratulations!

[NuHeathen]

I must apologize, as I apparently uploaded the wrong image.

Actually that might have been good, since now you know how to do it yourself.

You can modify the shape of flex track to fit perfectly the track plan. You have a few control points - end points and bend points. Play around with them. I was able to get a perfect match within seconds. Read the manual if it's not obvious.

Note that the flex track might take on different colors: red, orange, yellow. This is AnyRail warning you that you are violating your Minimum Radii rules. You can set the rules under Settings>Flex Track. Red is the first, Orange second and yellow third Minimum Radius.

Flex tracks in AnyRail has a lot of advanced features - read the manual.

I noticed that your tracks are all in the Background Image layer; you probably had that layer active when you created the tracks. it's easy to fix: just select the track, perhaps with multi select, and in the Tab above select the right layer in the Layer: field.

You are doing fast progress! Congratulations!

Thanks again for your help Magnus! I am slowly getting the hang of it, I am at the point now of trying to decide what to do in the middle of the layout, as I have quite a bit of space in there. I am thinking maybe a yard in the right, and maybe 2 industries in the left. I put down some flex track connected to the turnouts as a place holder, while I ponder what I would like. I also need to work out the height of the crossover, and make sure I have enough distance, to have as minimal of a grade as possible. I learned the hard way on the Scenic Ridge layout, that small radii and 4% grades just don't work, so I am trying to learn from that headache. I am also trying to keep 1.5" distance in my turnouts, due to fat finger syndrome, and am seeing some ok results, at least I think I am lol. I have no idea how to design a yard, but I am throwing things at the wall and seeing what stick's, so to speak. Here is the latest work in progress.

Modified ErieRRatHerbton.any

[magnus]

Nice job!

Now you are getting in to the fun part of it, what to build. This is of course very personal and a very old question in the hobby. There are lots of articles and books on this. I just read Lance Mindheim's new book on the topic; I got it at the local library. It was pretty good. Lot's of good discussion, I might not agree with everything, but a lot what he was saying resonated. He has a good site here https://lancemindheim.com/  He is a professional layout designer (and I think he uses AnyRail?).

The track plan you have copied is pretty good, not unlike my first. Lot's of switching and action. Lance might say it's too busy, needs more quiet space.

Another major question is to build an island or along the walls. Lance discusses the tradeoffs in detail in the book.

Usually it's good to start with your intention. Have you chosen a prototype? Or do you want to freelance? Era? And what's the purpose of your layout, what industries are served and how?

I found that once you start to think through some of those questions, it becomes easier as it narrows down your choices. But it also may feel limiting as you cannot do some things you might have wanted to. But of course it's your layout, so you can do whatever your want.

As you get into elevation, AnyRail also has many nice features on this; so read the manual again ;-).

[NuHeathen]

Nice job!

Now you are getting in to the fun part of it, what to build. This is of course very personal and a very old question in the hobby. There are lots of articles and books on this. I just read Lance Mindheim's new book on the topic; I got it at the local library. It was pretty good. Lot's of good discussion, I might not agree with everything, but a lot what he was saying resonated. He has a good site here https://lancemindheim.com/  He is a professional layout designer (and I think he uses AnyRail?).

The track plan you have copied is pretty good, not unlike my first. Lot's of switching and action. Lance might say it's too busy, needs more quiet space.

Another major question is to build an island or along the walls. Lance discusses the tradeoffs in detail in the book.

Usually it's good to start with your intention. Have you chosen a prototype? Or do you want to freelance? Era? And what's the purpose of your layout, what industries are served and how?

I found that once you start to think through some of those questions, it becomes easier as it narrows down your choices. But it also may feel limiting as you cannot do some things you might have wanted to. But of course it's your layout, so you can do whatever your want.

As you get into elevation, AnyRail also has many nice features on this; so read the manual again ;-).

Thank you for the link, and the info Magnus! Speaking of along the walls etc., my wife asked to see what something could look like around the walls, so I made something, extremely rough, but she got the idea. I set the work are for the dimensions of the room, added the closet, door and window, and put down some radii and straight flex, she really liked that idea. I might have to stop showing her the progress, otherwise I will end up with something around the walls, and multiple stories! I will say, the long straights along the wall would make for some excellent switching yards, maybe a station under the window, some industry on the right leg. SO many possibilities!

AroundTheWalls.any

[magnus]

Wow, you're really progressing fast, already at the double dogbone! You should definitely read Lance's book, or at least his blog. I was reading this yesterday, it's a short summary of his arguments which I all agree with, and I'm considering going down this path for my next layout.
https://lancemindheim.com/about-us/removable-bridge/

Also, Lance recommends to skip grades completely; just build it flat. Grades cause more trouble than they are worth, he says. I found that, too, as I have recently spent hours tuning slopes in curves - a big no no according to Lance.

And congratulations in getting your wife engaged! That's a great sign!

[NuHeathen]

Wow, you're really progressing fast, already at the double dogbone! You should definitely read Lance's book, or at least his blog. I was reading this yesterday, it's a short summary of his arguments which I all agree with, and I'm considering going down this path for my next layout.
https://lancemindheim.com/about-us/removable-bridge/

Also, Lance recommends to skip grades completely; just build it flat. Grades cause more trouble than they are worth, he says. I found that, too, as I have recently spent hours tuning slopes in curves - a big no no according to Lance.

And congratulations in getting your wife engaged! That's a great sign!

Thanks for the link Magnus. I have found on my smaller layout, that there is just to much grade in a short distance, which is the issue I had with the Scenic Ridge kit, so I will be re-thinking the left side of the layout. Also, 36x89 would take up most of the room, with small walkways all around the layout. It almost feels like a waste of the room at that point.

As far as the around the walls, my thoughts were, a max of 18" depth, makes it a lot easier to reach the back, if something were to go wrong. The radii at the ends, even though they are 36", are easily accessible as three side would be open, and they could each house a spur and an industry for example. The double main allows my trains to run, and at 14 1/2" min. radius, long trains and even a Big Boy (not decided yet) could round them smoothly. The top, under the window could house a station, town to the left or right, I would love a yard, but since I am so new, I would like to keep it relatively simple to start, but this layout would provide more flexibility for future growth, whether it be inside the layout, or above it.

As I layout Peco turnouts, I find that I need to add in flex track, rather than have them connected to each other, so that I can smooth the radii, and keep the 1 1/2" distance between the tracks, unless I miss read, and yards don't need that distance, and it is more for ease of access if things needed to be reset? Plus, I have more space to walk around inside the layout. I was fortunate to have a neighbor inquire about my current work benches in the room, and so my room now stands empty.

I have 5 of Lances books on the way, once they get here, I will devour them! They look to cover a lot of my questions, as my LHS is rather unhelpful, and even rude, so I will learn the old fashioned way. I understand his position, a train entering the same scene twice is unrealistic, as is the double loops at  the ends, but at the same time I need to compromise so that I can have things I enjoy. The continuous run of a long train, and satisfaction of some industry and towns for when the mood strikes me. The space I have is also a litte awkward, as the closet is almost in the middle of one wall, and the width of the room is rather tight. This is a duplex, so width is always a concern, but at least I have a room for my toys!

AroundTheWalls.any

[rlcross]

Hey NuHeathen.  I see you are up to the dogbone style at the moment.  As you stated its a good way to utilize space rather than a wider rectangle.

If you're interested, I went through the same development steps (and continue to revise), settling on a lift up round the room so far.  My space is similar to yours, a bit longer on the long wall.  Design is so personal, a matter of preferences that only you can answer.

I attach my work in progress for reference on how the lift up could affect your overall layout.  I laid out my design (103x215) sideways relative to yours to fit my monitor better.  I turned off most of the contour layers as they give me scenery/foam information but get very busy in seeing the layout. 

As an aside, I am currently considering going to HO scale as there seems to be more HOn3 available than Nn3.  So far I am only invested $22 for a couple of HO ore cars so I am free to explore either scale until I make up my mind.

Regards,

Richard.

[rlcross]

I dont see my attachment, so I will repost.AZ RTR Dual Revised 5.any

[NuHeathen]

Hey NuHeathen.  I see you are up to the dogbone style at the moment.  As you stated its a good way to utilize space rather than a wider rectangle.

If you're interested, I went through the same development steps (and continue to revise), settling on a lift up round the room so far.  My space is similar to yours, a bit longer on the long wall.  Design is so personal, a matter of preferences that only you can answer.

I attach my work in progress for reference on how the lift up could affect your overall layout.  I laid out my design (103x215) sideways relative to yours to fit my monitor better.  I turned off most of the contour layers as they give me scenery/foam information but get very busy in seeing the layout. 

As an aside, I am currently considering going to HO scale as there seems to be more HOn3 available than Nn3.  So far I am only invested $22 for a couple of HO ore cars so I am free to explore either scale until I make up my mind.

Regards,

Richard.

Good day! Thank you for sharing your layout, it is quite impressive! You have many elements that I would like to see in mine, but you also have the space for it! I was on the fence as far as N Scale goes, but I don't think I have the space for the radii needed for HO, I have rather large hands, and N Scale cars can be a bit challenging to handle at times, The only accessories I have currently are my old Power Cab and booster, some N Gauge Electro Frogs, and some of my fathers old HO cars and loco's, which were found in a box headed to the garbage. So my cost has only been the books that I have ordered, and the AnyRail6 program itself.

My biggest issue is lack of experience. The only layout I have had was the Scenic Ridge, and even then, I was only at the track laid and soldered point. This is where I realized that the tight radii and 4% grades just weren't going to cut it. After a 10 year break, jumping in head first is a little daunting, but so much fun.