Hi from Colorado, my new track plan in HO

[RevivalinHO153]

Hi, name is Tom. I am switching from my old N scale layout (trying to sell it on craigslist) over to HO. I have been frustrated for 20 years with the little size of N scale, and some years never touched it! Had HO scale when I was a kid (lets see...that was almost 60 years ago!) Have designed an HO layout in AnyRail (great software!) to fit in a 10'6" x 13' room, and am tweeking it. Will post it under layout plans. Please critique it and offer suggestions and observations. Have run trains on the layout plan using TrainPlayer software, another great tool, which helps get the bugs out!!

[BadBanana]

That's a busy layout!  Some may say it's a bit too busy, but that depends what you want to do.  Since you have many yards for industries, I assume you plan quite a lot of movement of freight between yards.  Me, I prefer the idea of free-flowing trains, but that's also partly a European perspective, I suspect.  But I like the fact that you have given thought to plenty of buildings. 

I also note the twin track main line around the layout which diverges in a couple of places.  Apart from the staging yard, it seems very flat.  Perhaps you need to avoid high bridges and cross-overs, but I would consider if a little height variation might add to the sense of space if you can keep gradients to within sensible limits.

Clearly you have considered how you can reach different areas.  Just make sure it's not too difficult.  I like the "Waist size matters here" comment.  I have the same issue with a layout I am playing with at the moment. 

You may want to consider using the Layers feature in AnyRail.  It can make it a lot easier to work on a particular section or to be able to switch buildings and scenery in an out of view.  Anything already drawn can easily be selected and assigned to a different layer - there's no need to redraw anything.  I think I would have a separate layer for your staging area as well. I would also recommend using Sections with different colours to make it easier to plan different areas (use Isolators at the connections between different sections).  I find it helps to pick out different yards or major runs of track such as that double loop.   

Good luck with it.  Please come back if you have further questions, and please only consider what I have written as suggestions - it is YOUR layout, after all..

[RevivalinHO153]

Thanks for your reply, BadBanana. I want to get my money's worth out of DCC, utilizing it to do alot of deliveries and pickups at industries.  If I just wanted continuous running trains I wouldn't spend the money on DCC. I hope to elevate the track against the backdrop a little bit to add terrain variety, but with the small room this is in, and the closeness of all the tracks I can't do too much in terrain elevations.  I expect to play around with adding thin layers of foam to some track sections once I have all the track assembled. I don't want to spend alot of time on the computer tweeking things like that in AnyRail, rather do that while building the layout.  Any open areas will probably have small rises in terrain between tracks, and trees. I can also have the two large end curves slightly elevated or have all the stuff inside of these curves elevated somewhat. My old N scale layout did have dramatic elevation changes and cliffs and tunnels, and I will miss that, but again, the space dictates what I can do.

[magnus]

Hi Tom, and welcome back to the hobby. Like you, I'm also back after almost a lifetime. I am working on my second layout, with about the same size room as you. I also have a hard time getting everything in to the space and am still working on my plan in AnyRail. The new book by Lance Mindheim, "How To Design A Model Railroad", changed my perspective quite a bit and I can recommend it. I have made big changes to my layout based on the book. Some specifics from your layout:
1) I also started with a loop-to-loop layout. As you see, it takes up an enormous space, and it's hard to get staging in to it. Instead I have now switched to a round the room with a removable bridge as here https://lancemindheim.com/about-us/removable-bridge/ Much better use of space, and I design it so I can run it with or without the bridge; without the bridge it will be point-to-point. You can easily do a bridge on your layout as well.
2) Height, my current layout is at 54" height and I like that, my new will be about the same. I see you have 32". Do you plan to operate it sitting down? Lance recommends armpit height.
3) Reach will be an issue in corners and potentially also along the walls. Lance recommends 24" max and preferably less like 18".
4) What is that wye narrow table in the middle? Do you plan to lift or duck under that everytime you need to switch sides? I see drop leaf. I guess it's so you can turn trains in the wye? I have been able to incorporate a wye on a narrow peninsula in the middle of the room perpendicular to the longest wall and I can operate on both sides of it. I think you have space for something similar assuming you take out the loops.
5) Negative space - it is busy layout, and mine is too. Lance talks about negative space as a technique in art to highlight key scenes. I have been able to move things around and incorporate this technique in my layout and you can too. Lance talks about this a lot in his book and gives many compelling examples.
6) Your spurs are not aligned in the same direction, which makes them harder to spot and pick up from. Again, Lance talks a lot about this.
7) Staging - I like your staging under the layout, but how will you get the trains there? Manually or back them down? I have a similar staging area, but can drive them in and out in both directions.

This is obviously your layout and all your decisions; I just wanted to share some of my experiences.

Good Luck with your endeavor!

[The Track Planner]

Hi Tom,

Like you I also live in Colorado and it sounds like we are about the same age. For 30+ years I have designed track plans, first as a hobbist and the last 8 years professinally. Many of the comments already posted are spot on. I would like to take a different approach, believability. A trait almost all professional designers have is the ability to take a given space and "conceptualize" the best usage of that space to design a "believable" model railroad.

With the advent of DCC, the hobby changed forever. Now you can operate a model railroad prototyically and more importantly make it believable. Something that was very hard prior to DCC. If you google my website (thetrackplanner.com) you will find the seven elements I try in incorporate into almost every track plan I design. I think you'll find many of the elements in direct conflict with your design.

If you would like to discuss these conflicts, I will be happy to do so, at no charge to you. A few of the things I would like discuss include (a) narrow benchwork, (b) trains traveling through scenes once, (c) including a peninsula, (d) adding a freight sorting yard, (e) staging, so trains have places to "come from" and "places to go to", (f) a viable mainline run.

If you would like to discuss these elements, contact me through my website and I will be happy to call and visit with you. In the end it is your railroad and you should do what makes you happy. Hopefully, I can add some insight that will allow you to enjoy the layout for many years to come.

Bill Beranek - The Track Planner

[RevivalinHO153]

Hi Bill, thanks for your reply.  I visited your website, printed out your seven design elements, kinda digesting these and scoring my layout on these elements, I think I have maybe a D- !! lol. So far in forums I have had comments that run the gamut, from looks great, fun layout, lots of places to drop and pickup freight to... too complicated, too busy, not a good height, too flat, do away with peninsulas.

Taking it all in, am gonna do an alternate design with maybe one peninsula in center and none others, and a removable bridge at room entrance. I have ordered the book "How to design a model railroad" by Lance Mindheim, Model Railroader Magazine, Kalmbach publishing, as recommended by one critique.

Part of the fun is doing the design myself, but with input from many others that will influence my design.  I am a disabled Vietnam vet (served in-country, and Air Force flightline work on fighters destroyed my hearing, and am on a fixed income.)  I am not much into prototypical operations, I don't intend to do way bills, operating sessions with others (live in the country and am not a groupie) and stuff like that. I don't want to be "anal" about my hobby, would be too much like having a job!!  I am a perfectionist, had to be in my careers in electronic systems, telecom, and cable tv, but don't want to be that way in my hobby in my later years. 

My interest in my N scale layout waned over the years and I believe it was because of my ongoing frustrations in the tiny scale of it all. It is a table type layout (lived in a very small house when I started it). I had concentrated on doing scenery with very little running of trains and not much rolling stock, not much industry. It had track problems, and delicate turnouts too!! It did have three levels of track and tunnels, trestle, and bridges too. This new layout plan is lacking the tunnels and some bridges, and maybe those might be missed over time!

I want my layout to have reasons to exist, with lots of industry, a town for interest, and the staging area that gives the connection to the outside world where freight and raw materials come from and industry products go to. I scored a B on this, due to only one way in and out.

Ok, enough said, didn't expect my reply to be this lengthy, but info in here may be good for other's reponses. Best way for me to chat about my layout is in here or by email due to my hearing challenges. Thanks!!

[The Track Planner]

Tom,

If you ever have a question or concern about your design, feel free to contact me at thetrackplanner@gmail.com, I'll try my best to give you an honest answer. I agree, going with an around-the-walls center peninsula configuration, is the best choice. Good Luck!

[RevivalinHO153]

Hi guys. I have received some really good feedback on this forum and others. So I have designed an alternative layout.  One influence has been some of Bill Beranek's Design Elements, and others have offered valuable suggestions.  Took a suggestion of having all the turnouts on a main line facing the same direction. So now I have what I will call the Santa Fe main line and the Rio Grande one. Am also reconsidering the height of my layout of between 36" and 45", as suggested. As to complexity and busy-ness, not likely to reduce the activity/destinations since I like alot of buildings and places to go to.  And the town is desired as well.  Looking at some terrain/track height variations not yet designed in.  Observations invited!!Not a valid attachment ID.Not a valid attachment ID.

[rlcross]

Tom, I like where you're going with this layout.

Not sure if you've seen it but there is a Central Valley Model Works 200ft Parker Truss double tracked bridge in the User Objects.  It runs 29" in span and might give you a wider lift out if you're interested.  It's a very impressive arched laced girder bridge as a focal point for your entrance. Just an idea.

Regards,  Richard

[magnus]

I also like where this is going. Much cleaner and simpler design. A few comments:
1) You have several S-curves in your design - avoid those. I wished AnyRail would warn about those like it warns about Reverse Loops and Minimum Radius.
2) Spurs look well designed, except for the middle one to the left. The one that goes to the Background shop. It requires a switchback, and you don't need the runaround. You can simplify by removing the turnout left of the Power Plant and adding either a longer spur to the left or 2 smaller spurs there.
3) The Lift Out Bridge is double track. I also have that in my design, but I just re-read this section in the Mindheim book (page 89) and he recommends only have one track on a lift out bridge. I guess it makes sense since you otherwise need to keep 2 tracks super aligned which adds another source of frustration and derailment risks. I will change my design to only have one track on my lift out bridge.

[RevivalinHO153]

OK, more good responses. Magnus, thanks for mentioning the S curves, really appreciate that, you are the only one to mention that! I did some research on the problem they create because I did not know. Watched a YouTube video that showed a derailment, convinced me!! I took the suggested solution for the ones I cannot eliminate due to small room size. Eliminated the one on the outer loop which will carry passenger cars. Other S curves I added a straight section of track between the opposing curves. Had to insert a new S curve for the siding for Imperial Foods, but that is just a siding for 50's era reefers, so thinking it shouldn't pose a problem.  I am keeping the configuration by the power plant.  I want to maintain the run around due to a short freight train needing to get out of the way of a passing passenger train.  My lift out bridges never were double track, they are singles, now spaced further apart due to changes for the S curve issue.  I added a factory next to the canning company, to process hides from the Champion Packing plant, into leather. Rlcross...I am using deck girder bridges so the Kato Unitrack used in entire layout) can be used on the bridge since the track has integrated ballast.  I plan on adding handrails and stanchions to the bridges for more interest.  If I do raise the level of the benchwork as suggested I probably will not make those bridges removable, just duck under.  Any more comments appreciated!!

[magnus]

I'm glad you figured out the S curves. Often they are hard to find.

I still see several S curves, especially at turnouts. Remember the diverging track on a turnout creates the first half of a potential S curve. Therefore essentially all yards and sidings always have S curves.

Whenever you have S curves you can't get rid of, make sure to run your 2 longest cars over them several times in both directions before fixing the track. Before you build the layout, you can set up a test based on your track plan, just follow the plan around the S curve exactly.

[RevivalinHO153]

Hey, I'm back. had to take time to plan and go on a 6 day 49 mile backpack trip in wilderness canyons in Utah. Also had to redo my track plan due to getting one huge surprise that I would not have seen had I not ordered a few turnouts. 

I discovered upon unpacking some turnouts that some track components listed in the KATO track library in AnyRail must be used with the turnouts and only with the turnouts and thus are not available to use anywhere else due to their design of the molded ballast roadbed.  In my original plan, since I was not aware of this issue, I used those turnout accessory pieces many other places in my track plan.  Unless a user wants to take a Dremel tool to other track pieces to modify them to fit, these specific accessory track pieces are the only way one can connect regular track pieces to the turnouts.

This was extremely frustrating for me, I was angry that this crucial information wasn't addressed by AnyRail.  I had to remove these specialized accessory pieces from my track plan, which made the plan look like the old pick-up sticks I played with when I was a child, toss them in the air and see where they all randomly land. That is what my layout then resembled.  Just a bunch of disconnected track laying about randomly!  Had I waited to order KATO turnouts until I had the benchwork built around the perimeter of the room, I would have had an expensive re-work to do.  It took many many hours to rebuild my layout plan with the correct unique turnout accessory pieces incorporated to each of the 37 turnouts, and to redo the plan with the common track elements to once again make it a workable layout. I did test runs of my locomotives and longest rolling stock on the temporary benchwork track and no problems, even at a fast speed.

With all that said though, I really do like the AnyRail software, finding it very valuable for designing a layout, easy to use, and it beats paper and pencil! I especially like being able to run the layout through it's paces in TrainPlayer software, which catches any track connection errors in the plan. So I do highly recommend AnyRail

I strongly recommend the software designers add some notes to the item description one sees in the item's tooltip and on the status bar, when the mouse pointer is placed over a track segment in the KATO HO track library.

So I now  have my track plan in it's final form.  I have built a mock-up benchwork in the spare room to make sure that it all fits and the space for this human being to move around also works, which it does, as long as I don't gain many more inches to my waistline!  Next is to repaint the room, and then build the valance to hold the LED light strips, and then the permanent benchwork.  Here is my layout. Comments and critiques are still welcome. Thanks to all those in this forum and others that gave me alot of valuable input.

[magnus]

Congrats on coming this far! I know there are a few tracks that have the problem you mentioned, especially tracks with built in roadbeds. Usually the recommendation is to just grind them down a bit, which I find weird - why design them that way in the first place?

Another piece of advice: Get (some part of) your main line running as early as possible. That way it will be easier to modify the track plan, and maybe even the benchwork, as you see fit. Especially where you have shift in elevation, turnouts, or S-curves; they are often the problem spots. Increment your way from there and build out in stages. Not only will you be able to run trains earlier, but you will also catch surprises early.

[RevivalinHO153]

Hi, here is a progress report on my new HO layout. I have just finished the lighting valance, with all the LED lighting installed. All the LED lighting only draws one amp!. The blue backdrop will have clouds painted onto it by an artist friend of mine, he is currently developing his technique. For railfaning effect, I am adding a train on the lighting valance that I can let run continuously whenever I am in the room. It is an steam engine and passenger cars labeled as the 'Durango and Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad'. Since I live in the Durango Colorado area, and that is our local tourist railroad, I wanted that to be what I see and hear as I build out my layout! Next step after the clouds are finished is to tear up the worn carpeting and install a new Pergo laminate floor which I have on order from Home Depot. Now I'll take a break and go camping!