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Problems figuring out my first layout

Started by Velocelt, March 07, 2023, 06:44:23 PM

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Velocelt

Layout 1.0.jpg

Hello,
First post here. I saw Anyrail on some YouTube videos and it looked like a really good way to plan out a layout. I sprung for the full, paid version and I've been playing around with it working on an N Scale layout. I have about 3 feet by 6 feet for the main layout and figured I could have an extension of 3 feet by 3 feet that could be part of the right hand side of the layout. The idea is that the layout would be a total of 3x9 feet but having the right hand section removable would mean that it wouldn't take up so much space in the living room where the layout is going to live. The table housing the layout would be custom built and the extension section would live underneath the main layout when the whole thing is being stored. The main idea was that the layout would be built into a kind of oversized coffee table and could be covered up when not in use.

Anyway, this brings me to the layout. I honestly thought from the videos that the software would be pretty intuitive but I'm struggling a LOT to achieve what I want, and even then I'm not sure I really like what I've created. I'm using KATO Unitrack (the basic stuff - none of the concrete/modern type stuff), and I want to run two trains at once, DC operation only. I thought at first of just having two discrete tracks with their own power, but then figured it'd be nice to be able to switch the trains around as it became clear that one loop would end up being a lot longer. The idea is to run late steam/early diesel (no specific prototype - just a fantasy layout), and to that end there is one major restriction. My wife and I (yes - she's just as into model railroading as I am), have pre-ordered a KATO 4014 Big Boy and while it will operate on 11" radius, I wanted to go a little bit bigger so it wouldn't look so funny on sharper curves. We want to run passenger and freight trains, and the idea is to have a rather scenic layout with the option for a little bit of staging and being able to turn the trains around.

Where stuff starts getting pear-shaped, is that there are several spots on the layout where I just couldn't get pieces of track to snap directly to each other, and I know from messing about with the basic loop of Unitrack I already own, that you can fudge the angles a *little* bit without any major impact to how the train runs. I also found in a couple sections that I simply couldn't achieve what I wanted without resorting to using the KATO flex track. The individual sections simply wouldn't work in several areas. At this point, I seem to spend hours trying to get something to look the way it is in my head but it's just not working out on the page so to speak. I mean I guess if the track pieces don't snap down just right, it means I'm probably not going to get it to work in real life anyway. I basically want to run two trains with some elevation for both tracks at a couple points, have some shortish tunnels, also have the two bridges you see on the layout being where they are because a river will be running along the top left to bottom right axis of the figure 8. The track parallels the river where it comes onto the layout in the upper left corner and maybe terminates in a lake in the center of the right side of the figure 8.

The upper left corner is supposed to have the outer loop running around the top of a mountain pass of sorts and then coming back down towards the front of the layout and the figure 8 is supposed to follow the river before diving into a tunnel and then coming back out. I added in a several spots where I thought I could shift trains from one track to the other, but I honestly have no idea how I'd isolate and separate those tracks to have their own power sources so that the trains could be controlled independently. Also, over on the right side where the 3x3 removable section is, I built in a reversing loop, but kinda don't like that because it takes up a ton of space for what it is, but the only real viable alternative to turning trains around (on the layout versus just picking them up and turning them around), is getting a KATO turntable but they're seriously expensive and pretty much out of stock everywhere anyway.

Anyway, I just don't feel like I'm quite getting where I want to be and I don't quite like the figure 8 section of the layout, and I feel like the extra turnouts and crossovers are maybe over-complicating things. I almost want to just buy several generic pre-packaged KATO sets and just mess around with pieces of track trying to figure things out by trial and error, but I have a feeling that would be super-frustrating as well, especially since to make this initial layout work, I had to use a bunch of weird little short pieces and I have a feeling I'd be lacking those pieces unless I just bought sets along with a bunch of extra random pieces. I'm kind of at a loss here. I feel like the software, while good is not helping achieve what I want, and I've yet to see ANY free plans available that combine multiple trains in a more scenic setting without having to use DCC. Any suggestions for how to proceed?

David

There's always a little bit of play in the real track. This wiggle room can be used to make things fit.
In AnyRail, this can be simulated as well, but it's best to only do that when finalizing a track plan.
Here's a video explaining how this works:

https://youtu.be/20hDeHXfAdo

This is the relevant topic in the manual:
https://www.anyrail.com/AR6Docs/en/closinggaps/

It might also help to study the track geometry a bit to see how the manufacturer intends it to be used:
https://www.anyrail.com/en/library/0020_N/0090_Kato/0010_Unitrack

But the main thing is to think of a 'purpose' for your layout. So why are the trains running around. Is it for industry, getting supplies to people, commuting, etc. That helps to come up with an interesting plan.



David Hoogvorst. Founder and Owner of DRail Software. Creator of AnyRail.

Rockytop

I understand your frustration having gone through this myself not long ago. How to design a layout if you're new to the sport? Where do you start?

I would highly recommend the book by John Armstrong on "Track Planning for Realistic Operation": https://www.amazon.com/Track-Planning-Realistic-Operation-Railroader/dp/0890242275/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3FAHQENFIDSX2&keywords=john+armstrong+track+planning+for+realistic+operation&qid=1678732510&s=books&sprefix=john+armst%2Cstripbooks%2C86&sr=1-1

This is also helpful when starting out to understand the various types of layouts: https://www.amazon.com/Hundred-Track-Railroaders-Railroad-Handbook/dp/0890245126/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LGJSYMPXZDHH&keywords=101+track+plans&qid=1678732862&s=books&sprefix=101+trac%2Cstripbooks%2C92&sr=1-1  It starts small and works up in size.

Material in both books is many decades old; pre-DCC. Info in Armstrong's book addresses the WHY questions, which is important because the design should flow from the purpose. I've become a big fan of Armstrong and collected most things he published. He developed many clever designs from table tops to round-the-rooms. His book classifies track plans in a logical way that can provide a launch point for new designs.

The other thing to consider early on is the layout beyond the track plan. Armstrong (and others I think) uses the analogy of a theater play where the trains are the actors and the stage and scenery are constructed to set the context for the actors. As you begin to understand the stage and context, you have more info to drive the track plan. Then, of course, there is the screenplay (operations). Call it "There and Back Again." As with most design tasks, it's a back-and-forth exercise to work it all out. For some of us, that's the fun part.

Here in the US we also have the Layout Design Special Interest Group (LDSIG): https://ldsig.net/o/ldsig  /wiki/index_title_Category_Primer.html  This is not a complete guide, but it does provide good info. Most who work at layout design these days focus on the round-the-room type were you have lots of space, time, and money. I personally prefer to focus on table top designs and small scales (N & Z). Not as much published these days on the smaller designs.

Does this make sense? It's been a challenge to figure all this out and I'm still gathering info and input.

rlcross

Rockytop, excellent suggestions.  Armstrong was one of my first purchases in layout design background reading.  By thinking operationally, it brings the "why" to the front of the planning process and avoids the "whole lotta rail"  layouts that don't hold interest or challenge for long.

Regards, Richard

Elvis

Kato N Scale UniTrack is good stuff -- you just need to master the geometry and study that. I also find that it helps to work in metric (mm) because that's how it was designed.

They have an expansion track but it is not flexible. Great for filling in the last section when the lengths just don't work out.

You used a lot of flex track in your plan, which is really Atlas N scale flex. I only use this for planning purposes. It's great for measuring lengths or radii.

Kato was smart enough, in my opinion, to NOT make prototypical turnouts/switches. Prototypical turnouts often diverge into a straight section and often at odd angles. 12 degrees 50 seconds for example. Or 12.8333* -- This is fine for a spur, but for continuous running these destroy your geometry.

Kato has 481 and 718 R curves exactly match a #4 and #6 turnout. Handy-dandy.



Kato Geometry AnyRail File